how to breed for pieds

[old biddy]

I am assuming that breeding India Blues with Whites will result in pied peachicks. Is that correct or is there something else I should know about
getting pieds? I have only had India Blues and would like to purchase some Whites, if that is all I need to do to get some pied chicks. But knowing
little about the genetics I defer to those with more knowledge that I have. Thanks for any advice!

 

[BirdsBeesTrees]

I thought that too before but it's not true. You have to breed pieds to get pieds.

 

[old biddy]

I thought that too before but it's not true. You have to breed pieds to get pieds.

Oh. So there you go! Of course you know what my next question is going to be. Lol. How did the first pied come to be?

 

[BirdsBeesTrees]

Oh. So there you go! Of course you know what my next question is going to be. Lol. How did the first pied come to be?

I don't know. Other than what I've been told I don't know anything about genetics.

 

[KsKingBee]

This is copied from the Stickies section Peafowl Genetics 201, further genetics.

Mechanics of the 'White' Color and Pied Pattern
White and Pied birds are NOT albinos or partial albinos (ok, they are not USUALLY. An albino peafowl would be white, but a white peafowl is not an albino). Albinism is the absence of melanin production in the body and applies ONLY to birds who fail to produce melanin. A partial albino is a creature who has other forms of pigmentation (for example, carotenoids) and may still display some color. Albinos will lack color in their skin and eyes, not just their feathers.

Leucism, on the other hand, is a failure to properly deposit pigment (all pigments) on the feathers due to the failure of pigment cells to move to their proper location on the body from the neural crest. Leucism affects only the feathers of the bird, leaving the skin and eyes normal colored. Partial leucism results in the pied coloration (in any bird, not just peafowl. Wild pied or piebald birds can be found, but are very rare and usually are killed quickly by predators or do not get to breed because they don't look right). Total leucism can result in a completely white bird, which is how we have white peafowl. Pale leucism can affect part or all of a bird, resulting in washed out plumage instead of totally white plumage.

Because leucism is a failure of the color to be put into place, not a failure of the color to exist, it is possible for white birds (and pied birds) to exist with other colors and other patterns. A white bird may also be genotypically a purple bird, or a bronze bird, but the 'white' would mask these colors completely because the pigment for them would not be deposited on the feathers. Thus, a bird could genotypically be purple or bronze or any other color, but would phenotypically be white, and would breed true to white. In this way, white birds may be 'split to' other colors or patterns depending on parentage (for instance, a white bird from silver pied parents would breed 100% silver pied offspring if bred to a dark pied from silver pied parents, because both birds would be carrying silver pied... even though neither of them looked silver pied!).

A white bird carries 2 copies of the white allele (noted as WW)
A pied bird carries 1 copy of the white allele and 1 copy of the pied allele (noted as Wp)
A dark pied bird carries 2 copies of the pied allele (pp)
There is currently a theory regarding the other leucistic gene, White-Eye (WE), in that there are two different WE genes. One (WE) produces clean white eyes on a bird, the other (SWE) produces white eyes but also causes the total-body silvering effect seen in Silver Pied birds. A bird (including a pied bird) may have the first white eye gene without being silver pied.
Silver pied birds are a result of an interaction between white, pied, and SWE alleles.

A white bird cannot also be a pied bird, as the pied gene is an allele for the white gene. A bird cannot be both a partial leucistic bird (pied) and a total leucistic bird (white) at the same time. It is also true that a total leucistic bird will never revert to partial leucism, meaning a white bird will never create a pied bird offspring because they are different genetic codes.

In this sense, white and pied are not truly colors or patterns; they are the masking of color and the interruption of patterns. However, we will place them into the color and pattern categories respectively because it's easier. However, bear in mind when selecting whites that parentage can matter and that not all white birds are created equal. A white bird out of, say, a purple BS silver pied pair, will carry the genetic information for purple, BS, and for SWE. This information can be vital for breeding. For example. if you wanted to produce ONLY opal pied birds, you could acquire a white out of opal pieds, and a dark pied out of opal pieds, and when bred together they would produce only opal pieds (as opposed to breeding 2 opal pieds together, which would give you 25% whites, 50% opal pieds, and 25% opal dark pieds). So, it's important to know what your lucy genes are masking if you intend to breed anything other than white to white.

 

[old biddy]

This is copied from the Stickies section Peafowl Genetics 201, further genetics.

Mechanics of the 'White' Color and Pied Pattern
White and Pied birds are NOT albinos or partial albinos (ok, they are not USUALLY. An albino peafowl would be white, but a white peafowl is not an albino). Albinism is the absence of melanin production in the body and applies ONLY to birds who fail to produce melanin. A partial albino is a creature who has other forms of pigmentation (for example, carotenoids) and may still display some color. Albinos will lack color in their skin and eyes, not just their feathers.

Leucism, on the other hand, is a failure to properly deposit pigment (all pigments) on the feathers due to the failure of pigment cells to move to their proper location on the body from the neural crest. Leucism affects only the feathers of the bird, leaving the skin and eyes normal colored. Partial leucism results in the pied coloration (in any bird, not just peafowl. Wild pied or piebald birds can be found, but are very rare and usually are killed quickly by predators or do not get to breed because they don't look right). Total leucism can result in a completely white bird, which is how we have white peafowl. Pale leucism can affect part or all of a bird, resulting in washed out plumage instead of totally white plumage.

Because leucism is a failure of the color to be put into place, not a failure of the color to exist, it is possible for white birds (and pied birds) to exist with other colors and other patterns. A white bird may also be genotypically a purple bird, or a bronze bird, but the 'white' would mask these colors completely because the pigment for them would not be deposited on the feathers. Thus, a bird could genotypically be purple or bronze or any other color, but would phenotypically be white, and would breed true to white. In this way, white birds may be 'split to' other colors or patterns depending on parentage (for instance, a white bird from silver pied parents would breed 100% silver pied offspring if bred to a dark pied from silver pied parents, because both birds would be carrying silver pied... even though neither of them looked silver pied!).

A white bird carries 2 copies of the white allele (noted as WW)
A pied bird carries 1 copy of the white allele and 1 copy of the pied allele (noted as Wp)
A dark pied bird carries 2 copies of the pied allele (pp)
There is currently a theory regarding the other leucistic gene, White-Eye (WE), in that there are two different WE genes. One (WE) produces clean white eyes on a bird, the other (SWE) produces white eyes but also causes the total-body silvering effect seen in Silver Pied birds. A bird (including a pied bird) may have the first white eye gene without being silver pied.
Silver pied birds are a result of an interaction between white, pied, and SWE alleles.

A white bird cannot also be a pied bird, as the pied gene is an allele for the white gene. A bird cannot be both a partial leucistic bird (pied) and a total leucistic bird (white) at the same time. It is also true that a total leucistic bird will never revert to partial leucism, meaning a white bird will never create a pied bird offspring because they are different genetic codes.

In this sense, white and pied are not truly colors or patterns; they are the masking of color and the interruption of patterns. However, we will place them into the color and pattern categories respectively because it's easier. However, bear in mind when selecting whites that parentage can matter and that not all white birds are created equal. A white bird out of, say, a purple BS silver pied pair, will carry the genetic information for purple, BS, and for SWE. This information can be vital for breeding. For example. if you wanted to produce ONLY opal pied birds, you could acquire a white out of opal pieds, and a dark pied out of opal pieds, and when bred together they would produce only opal pieds (as opposed to breeding 2 opal pieds together, which would give you 25% whites, 50% opal pieds, and 25% opal dark pieds). So, it's important to know what your lucy genes are masking if you intend to breed anything other than white to white.

Okay then. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I will do more research in the stickies section. I had it all wrong.

 

[KsKingBee]

A good combination is a White x Dark Pied. A White has two copies of the White gene and the Dark Pied has two copies of the Pied gene so theoretically every chick should have one White gene and one Pied gene making them all Pieds.

 

[Faizan Ali]

This thread broke my heart I was hoping for keeping a trio of 2 Indian blue and a white in our new house in hopes of getting some pieds aswell. Wht would be the result of blue male x white female? Split to white chicks?

 

[KsKingBee]

This thread broke my heart I was hoping for keeping a trio of 2 Indian blue and a white in our new house in hopes of getting some pieds aswell. Wht would be the result of blue male x white female? Split to white chicks?

Correct.

 

[Caron S]

I am assuming that breeding India Blues with Whites will result in pied peachicks. Is that correct or is there something else I should know about
getting pieds? I have only had India Blues and would like to purchase some Whites, if that is all I need to do to get some pied chicks. But knowing
little about the genetics I defer to those with more knowledge that I have. Thanks for any advice!

i have 4 chicks from a cross of an indian blue male and a white female they are 1 month old two are brown and 2 are white but they now have light tan flecks - Ive no idea how my white female was bread. any guesses on what colours my chicks will develop to be?