How to keep my horse calm on the lung line...?

[Paintedhorsegirl]

I have two ponies in the same pasture area, Trini is old and retired with cushings disease and the other is a 6 yr old paint, Lovey. Ive only had lovey for about a week and a half. The first few days I let her get settled and adjusted , and started trying to build a bond with daily grooming. This past weekend I started lunging her, she seemed to do ok. She does better with one side than the other but I will continue to do both to get her better I hope. My issue is this, I didnt work her yesterday i got too busy. Today as soon as I got home from work I went out and started working her. I dont have a round pen, so I lung on a flat area in the back part of the pasture. She was doing well and then out of no where started running as fast as she could pulled the lung line out of my hand and ran as fast as she could back to where the other pony was. I was so scared it was going to get tangled up and she was going to get hurt. I tried with all my power not to let go but she over powered me. I went over to get her to let her know I wasnt impressed and i tried to make her go with me because I wanted to show her who was boss. I wanted to continue lunging her, she stood still and refused to move or go with me. She won, shes stronger..So I gave up and now she thinks she is boss. What can I do to get her to listen. She is the sweetest horse not any bad habits, but for some reason flip out while lunging today. Do you think its seperation anxiety from the other pony? Im not sure if i should go try again or give up for today and try again tomorrow. How can I keep her calm on the lung line and prevent this from happening again?

 

[twentynine]

I'll be interested in answers. Novice with horses myself. I still find lunging my two horses as much a lesson for me as it is the horses. I am amazed just how sensitive a huge animal like a horse is to small body language changes. Nod of the head, how I put my eyes on them, slumped shoulders verses square and straight.

Many times now I have had Cody (5 yr old paint/app gelding) do things that I was only thinking of, and quite a few times he has done things I wasn't thinking of too!

I do not have a proper round pen either, I use a circle cut in the grass surrounded by tee post (safety topped) with flagging tape. Cody was trained for 6 months last year by a pro. Currently I can lead him into the round pen, remove the lead rope, and lunge him without line, using hand signals and clicks. He will go in either direction, but is also better going to the left.

The other horse Ranger, is a guess his age paint (vet says 12-15 years, only gelded last year) rescue. His training, if any is undetermined, I am sure he has had some, but who knows what and how much. I lunge him in the same makeshift round pen, put he is nowhere as near controllable as Cody. He does what I want him to do, but I better not let my attention wonder, he will instantly take advantage. Never bolted, never any harse reaction, but he will cut the corner on the round pen, reverse direction, or stop and turn, or go to a dead slow walk, if I don't keep my stance just right. I keep working on it, and it is getting better (me or him it's up for discussion), but boy oh boy, it's a job.

My advice, a couple days is not a lot of time to allow a horse to get used to a place. Other than that, I'll leave it up to the experts.

 

[Akane]

A horse being bigger and stronger than you should not have anything to do with whether you can make them move or not. Whether it's a pony colt or a full size 1200lb horse it depends on brains not strength. Don't try to drag a horse. It will achieve the opposite of what you want and may make even a good leader decide to set back against the pressure. If they won't lead forward drive them forward. Step back along their body until you are even or just behind the hip. Ask again with clucks, raised hand, whatever signal they are used to. This will move most trained horses without having to do anything more. Problem solved. Keep doing it until they move off easily and then slowly make your way back toward their head so you are in leading position again. If they don't move just keep escalating. Threaten a little with a rope or whip. Tap them a little with the end of the rope or whip. Increase the force a little. Eventually they will drive forward. At this point you don't care where they go. You just want to prove you can make them move. After you've proven to a horse you can make it move and it consistently moves off with minimal effort (no need to touch the horse) then you prove to them you can control where they go. Sometimes with an exciteable young horse that refuses to lead we end up going in spirals back to the place we were working before they acted up and gained ground toward the gate or their friends. I push them over a little every time they pass me on that side so we steadily get farther from where they want to be and closer to where I want to be. All the while being kept in motion. Everything you do with a horse just needs broken down in to stages. Don't try to get everything at the same time. If you have a problem pick one point like "move" and do that until you've got it. Then add the next step which might be "move left". Eventually all the steps come together but if you tried to get them all at once you'd just confuse the horse or give them an opportunity to take advantage of you.

Back to brains not strength. If a horse bolts get as far out of line with the horse as possible. From you down the rope to their head and then back to their hindquarters should make a V not a line. The wider that V the more leverage you have to turn them and stop them from bolting. If you widen the V enough you can spin in place a full size horse headed at a good canter away from you. I've done it with 2 year olds and I only weighed 105lbs. It's all about knowing where to stand to tip the head, shove the hips, move the shoulders.... Eventually it becomes intuitive to move in to the correct spot to get the correct body part to move the way you want.

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

Do you use a lunge whip? If not I'd definitely get one. A couple taps of that on a stubborn horse is usually enough to get them to move forward. My horse typically moves forward from the noise and movement alone.

I would try to work in a closed area if at all possible. An arena works best, but a closed pasture would work as well. That way if she gets loose again, you don't have to worry about her going far and getting hurt. Then start slow. If she takes off again, retrieve her and keep her feet moving until you tell her to stop. It may not be movement in a pretty circle, but any controlled forward movement will work. When you feel she has given in to your demands (of moving forward), ask her to whoah and call her in to you (Or face you if she is not used to coming in). If she does not do what you ask, immediately make her move again. Repeat until she stops and faces you.

It's best to watch someone else do it who knows what they are doing, so if you have a friend who is used to lunging a horse see if they might be willing to come help you. Also, removing your fear (Of her running off on you again) will help you to relax and in effect, she will relax. Like I mentioned, lunging in an enclosed area would help this. You might have to put the other pony in a stall to do it, but try different things and see what works.

 

[Paintedhorsegirl]

Thank you for your useful knowledge. This is the first horse of my own Ive been able to lunge. I just sold a 5 yr old pinto mare that reared ever time she was lunged. Therefore i never worked with her, instead I hired trainers but just recently found her a new home. My older pony Ive let her retire and she has cushings so the kids lean line ride her and spend hours and hours grooming her. I have another horse but lives at boarding stables so they work her. Lovey is the first one Ive decided to work with myself. I got lessons on lunging with her before I brought her home. She was used for lessons at a stable and was lunged every day so she should listen. they spent this last month doing xtra training with her to get her ready for me. Im going to keep trying everyday until i get it right, I will start with baby steps with her if thats what it takes for her to listen and respect me. When I do ground work with her, she dosnt always listen that great either. She eventually does what i want but not always easy. I was never taught about the v when luging, now i will try and pay attention. So your saying I should be lined up with her back end not her head, right? Another one of my issues is Im not sure the proper commands to use to make her slow or go faster. i can stop her with wo, she usually listens for that..not always..I want to make sure she will listen to me before I start riding her, Im hoping to start riding her in another week but If I canrt get her to listen how do I know she will listen when Im in the saddle...Ugh..i dont know, but thank you for the information...wish me luck

 

[Paintedhorsegirl]

Quote:
So how do i call her in, know one has ever taught me that part..I do have a lung whip , I use it behind her to drive her. As soon as she sees it, she usually starts moving but Im not sure on how to make her slow down..I can make her go faster my making the whip noise behind her and that drives her faster and she usually stops when I say wo , not always...but how do i make her face me like you said. I would like to try this. Tomorrow i am going to put the other pony in her stall while I work with her...any other suggestions..

 

[Celtic Hill]

First off, separate her from the other horse while you work her. She needs to learn that when your working your working not worrying about the other pony, and if you are working her in the same area as the pony, you won't have all her attention. Are you using a chain? I would put a chain over it's nose too when he starts to get a little excited just pull back on the line and get it's attention.

So.

1. Lunge in an area separate from the other pony
2. Chain over the nose

 

[chickenzoo]

I find lunging in one direction at a time can wind a sensitive horse up more. I use a rope halter so they are less inclined to pull on it or me and a heavy weight 14 ft lead or so. If you teach her how to do a consistent change of direction on command while on a lead, she will be focused more on you, because she won't know when you are going to ask her to change. She will tire a little more quickly instead of running mindless circles around you also. If she is a very sensitive horse, I would work on more desensitizing exercises first.

 

[welsummerchicks]

I suppose you were longeing her in a halter. That doesn't allow you to have any control over your horse when he really wants to go somewhere.

You need, ESPECIALLY if you have no longe area, a bridle, a longe line in good condition (cotton web - no nylon ones - impossible to hang onto and will burn your hands even thru gloves). You need a longe whip, and gloves, really good gloves that are thick and fit your hands very well, and sensible work boots.

A good idea would be to get a snaffle bit - a ring bit - not a western snaffle type bit with shanks. You want to have something things can't get caught on - so shank bits aren't good for longeing. Also, believe it or not you don't want to have a lot of leverage when you are longeing, because you're pulling to one side, rather than back (as you would when you're in a saddle riding).

They can be bought very cheaply. They aren't costly.

Some people, what they do is if they don't have a lot of money, they will string up some electric fence around the area they want to longe. It can be quite cheap to buy some electric tape and a few fiberglass rods, they're portable and can be used later when you are just trying to keep the horses off overgrazed areas.

But in general, I don't care for that as some horses will run right through that.

If you cannot put together a STURDY fence to longe your horse in, then you need to have some control of the horse.

Now, I know many people think 'the horse won' and 'now she is the boss' - I urge you to not worry about that. It really isn't like that. You just don't want running back to the horses to turn into a habit.

Now, if you can't make a longeing area with a gate you can close, you can do one of a couple things.

One is to longe near the barn and the other horse, so the horse doesn't have that long distance to get excited over. Horses tend to be quieter and calmer when other horses are close by. They generally don't run off.

However, you may still have problems with the horse trying to turn toward the other horses, follow them, or just simply stop when being made to go away from the other horses.

I've had some very rough horses to longe with no area set up to longe them in. What I do is first, put on some very good gloves, very good strong work boots that fit very well and lace up tight, and yeah, I put on a helmet.

Keep in mind, you ALWAYS know where on the longeing circle the horse is going to try and go back to the other horses. He's going to run toward the gate, toward the other horses, it's always the same thing. You KNOW where he's going to try it. They nearly always try it in exactly the same place on the circle. BEFORE YOU GET TO THAT POINT, start bending his neck in toward you and getting his eye on you. DON'T WAIT TIL HE'S HEADING STRAIGHT FOR THE OTHER HORSES - START BEFORE HE GETS TO THAT POINT.

Because for one thing, no matter what happens, I am not going to let go. I don't want them to get a habit of running off. Not only that, I would be worried about them getting hurt right just that one time. It has happened. I would not want one of mine running loose down the driveway toward the highway.

But to do that, I am going to make sure I have something in my favor. That is, I have the longe line on the BIT, NOT THE HALTER. There is NO WAY IN THIS SWEET WORLD ANYONE CAN HOLD ON TO A 500-1500 lb HORSE when it has a halter on it and it wants to go somewhere and gets its neck straight.

Now a key thing is when you are trying to hold onto a horse, NEVER wrap or even turn or flip, the longe line around your hand, arm, any part of you. ALWAYS have it arranged that you can drop it and it will fall totally free of you.

The old horseman's home is FULL of people who have no use of one hand, who have torn out their shoulder, who have torn out their elbow, or lost a thumb or finger, because they wrapped something round their hand. EVEN IF THE LONGE LINE END IS IN BIG LOOPS - DO NOT EVER PUT EVEN THOSE BIG LOOPS ROUND YOUR HAND...NO MATTER HOW LOOSE. PUT YOUR HAND AROUND THE LOOPS, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

What happens if, the horse takes off, he is going to drag all one hundred and - well - all my weight, on his MOUTH. Yeah. Not pretty. It's going to hurt his mouth. But it's going to be brief, and he won't do it again.

These habits are dangerous, for the horse, more than anyone else. If a horse gets out on the road he can kill himself and anyone who is in the car he hits.

And frankly, I ain't got enough insurance to cover how many dollars I'd get sued for if that happened. That and I like my horses and I'd rather they did not die or get maimed, or kill anyone else.

But if anyone else is around it's dangerous for them and it ain't too keen for the handler either.

So.

First, I am going to try and catch him at it before he gets going. When he STARTS to take off, I am going to give him a fifteen inch smile and bend his neck around, and he is going to know that this is not a behavior I like.

And I am NOT going to allow him to stop and rest then. That's a reward. He is going to work, and keep working. I'm not going to brutalize him, I'm not going to make him tear around so fast he hurts himself, but he is going to work.

WHY? Well mostly because he obviously needs it. He's probably got a ton of accumulated energy and isn't getting enough exercise.

I am not going to let go - well - I am going to be reading what is going on, I may still let go if the horse has completely lost its head and is running toward a semi. But - most of the time, I am not going to let go, even if I get knocked over, even if I get drug, even if I am being taken for a Nantucket Sleigh Ride. I can put the longe line around my butt to help enable me to hang onto it, and sit down and the horse can drag me for as long as he wants. DURING that time I am going to try very hard to pull his neck around to the side so he does not have his neck straight forward. That can help stop the horse. I am also going to try and guage how NUTS the horse is. Some fairly reasonable horses go insane when they are in that situation, I'd be ready to let go of the longe line if it looked like holding him wasn't going to work or I was going to get hurt.

There's an amount of experience that comes into this. If you are a novice, you might need to not go to any of the lengths other people might go to.

If you're a novice, it might be hard for you to catch the right moment and turn him before he starts running.

Most of them will stop pretty quick.

The REAL TRICK, however, is to not let it get to this point. When you see the horse start to run, TURN HIS NECK, BEND HIS NECK.

A horse with his neck straight out in front of him is a horse that can do whatever he wants, where ever he wants, however fast he wants. To control your horse you need to turn his neck.

Here you can see a pretty lazy horse, but whenever the horse gets his neck too straight or starts looking out to the outside of the circle, the longer turns his head in toward her - and when he starts cantering, he tries to get strong, but she TURNS HIS HEAD TOWARD HER - you can also see every time the horse starts looking 'over there' where the horses are, she turns his head back to her.

 

[TMNTCkins]

I give vaulting lessons so lot's and lot's of lunging.
I agree with welsummerchicks. Do not lunge with a halter. We lunge in a loose ring snaffle. Keep your circle small, the larger the circle gets the faster they can go. Only ask for walk until they seem calm and are listing to you. Keep the horses nose slightly turned into the circle. I think of a square circle, in the corner's of your square give a little pressure from your elbow just to remind them to listen. When you feel that things are going well ask for trot, only trot a few strides and ask for walk again. I would do only walking and a little trotting small circles until you feel you have this mastered. Then make your cirlce bigger as you go and feel like the horse understands and is doing what is asked. Don't rush it, take your time
Goot luck and have fun!!