How to know an unpipped chick is dead?

[EggieRowe]

I'm in my second hatch and it's not going as well as my first despite the first set being shipped. I had 3 pips in the incubator, two made it and one didn't. Also had two hatch under the broody, but just found one pushed to the side and obviously dead. I know that these two were dead because they were breathing and now they aren't. But last hatch I did 4 eggtopsies at day 23 because I didn't see any movement after candling or float testing. In all cases, no internal pip, no bleeding, no movement. Only one had not absorbed the yolk. Now I'm wondering if I killed them opening the shells. Or am I just being cray-cray - it's quite possible! I'm super high strung at hatches.

 

[loveourbirds]

it sounds to me like your temperature is just a touch to low. another cause is to high of humidity. what type of incubator are you using?

 

[EggieRowe]

Both hatches were set for 99.5 on a Genesis 1588. First hatch and most of second hatch I had a hygrometer/thermometer in there as well. (I took the 2nd one out at day 14 candle to monitor temps in my coop.) Both times the temps were about 100.5 to 101 on the floor. First time I kept the humidity around 30%, letting it dip into the low 20's before adding more water. I was extra careful because they were all saddled from shipping and had no visual clues to go by. I got 8 out of 14 in that hatch. This time I let them go drier, down to 19% before adding water, and keeping them in the low 20's. These were local eggs and I outlined the air cells - picture perfect increase in volume each week. For lockdown I bumped to 65%. I haven't had to do much of anything to regulate temp or humidity with either hatch.

Last night I let my curiosity get the best of me and went to candle the ones in the bator. Thank goodness because one had pipped to the bottom in the carton. I helped it a little then put it back in. Couple hours later it was out on its own and this morning looking good. There are 4 more eggs in the bator that have zero movement and zero pips. I never got around to candling them after helping the one chick. This morning I see no new chicks under the broody, so not sure how she's doing with the 2 she has left. If this is it, I'll have only hatched 4 out of 12. That's pretty crummy for eggs that had good development up until lockdown.

 

[loveourbirds]

I will help you get this figured out, please bear with me on all the questions.

what day are they on?
do you always let them hatch in the cartons?
do you have an automatic turner?
where did you get the thermometer and hygrometer that you are using, did you calibrate them?
I am assuming where you are, its 80 in the day 65 in the night, and kind of humid 50% would be typical?
where do you keep your incubator?
are you hatching bantams, standard fowl? and we are talking about chicken right?
are you thinking of this from a scientific standpoint, or are you thinking of yourself as the hen?

I think I can give you a set of instructions that will get you and keep you hatching.

 

[EggieRowe]

I will help you get this figured out, please bear with me on all the questions.

what day are they on?
do you always let them hatch in the cartons?
do you have an automatic turner?
where did you get the thermometer and hygrometer that you are using, did you calibrate them?
I am assuming where you are, its 80 in the day 65 in the night, and kind of humid 50% would be typical?
where do you keep your incubator?
are you hatching bantams, standard fowl? and we are talking about chicken right?
are you thinking of this from a scientific standpoint, or are you thinking of yourself as the hen?

I think I can give you a set of instructions that will get you and keep you hatching.

I'm probably over sharing, but here goes! Anything to get things right!

Today is Day 22. First one pips were between 9am & 12 on the 20th. The first to hatch actually pipped and zipped at midnight later that day. One of the first pips is the one that obviously died in shell and the other I had to help get unstuck through the vent hole - dribbling warm water on the dry spots.

First time hatching in cartons. Last time I laid them on their sides at lockdown, but one was 'capped' by another chick's spent shell and quit, then another was rolled pip down and also quit.

I do have an autoturner and made mental notes that it did rotate about 4 times days.

I didn't calibrate the onboard therm/hygro or the one I added. Both are digital and I've only ever seen directions for regular ones. The one I added I got from Lowes, I think. It was being used in the brooder before this with a bulb thermometer and both were inline temperature wise.

Weather is accurate, though it has been rather wet these last couple weeks. In the house it's always been 50%, the lowest was 40. Both times I used 'dry hatch' directions for the incubator.. (This time I put 8 eggs in bator, 4 under broody).

The incubator is in the home office, in a corner away from the ceiling vent. No one really goes in there, so it's the most stable room.

This hatch was 6 Olive Egger and 6 Marans eggs, all standard chickens I believe. I purchase for egg color, not body type, but I know the same Marans roo fathered both groups.

I'm looking at this scientifically. I've followed all the directions I've read and think my results are inconsistent with the care I've taken. I'm beginning to think the dry method is the problem, but I've seen nearly nothing but praise for it. So confused!

 

[loveourbirds]

that's what I thought, your trying to hard. think of yourself more as the hen in nature. she raises and lowers her body to change the temp on the eggs, she gets up a few minutes a day to get food/water and just stretch her legs. in nature there are no thermometers, hygrometers or thermostats. those are just our way of controlling and measuring the process.

I started with little giant incubators, i know they are similar but there may be a couple of differences. so if part of my instructions don't match up to your incubator, let me know and we will work through it.

also just because a thermometer is digital, does not make it accurate. most digital thermometers have a +-3 degree range. i still feel like your temp is just a touch to low.

sanitize your incubator, set it back up with turner installed, put water in 1/2 of the troughs the manufacturer put in, set your temp at 101.5 or as close to it as possible. don't pay attention to the hygrometer. (the temp and hygrometer instructions are just for you, just this time around.) little giant had 2 red plugs for ventilation, i don't know about color, but I'm pretty sure hovabator has the same thing. do all the temp measurements with 1 plug in. (1/2 of the plugs if there are more)

if your temp rises above 101.5 adjust your thermostat to lower it. if it drops, as long as its not below 95 for a few hours there's nothing to worry about. Ive had hatches drop to 70 degrees for 3 hours and still hatch over 50%. in other words, if it drops don't adjust it to quickly, check it again in a few hours then adjust. thinking of yourself as a mother hen, when its 25 degrees outside chances are shes not keeping those eggs at perfect temps.

open your incubator 15 minutes a day, about the same time each day. do this for the first 18 days. this is a good time to candle the eggs if you need to, also add water during this time period if needed. keep in mind it is OK to let those troughs dry out occasionally. this simulates the hen getting off the nest. this process makes your chicks stronger by: allowing more oxygen, and they will kick when cold this is good exercise for hatch day.

on day 18 take out the turner and lay the eggs on their sides. add water to all troughs hovabator put in for water, and take out one plug. put the lid on, double check your temperature in about 2 hours. still want it to be 101.5. only open the lid to add water when its out of water. if you have to open the lid mist the eggs lightly with water close to the same temp as the eggs.

eggs can take 30 hours from pip to hatch, don't worry it will happen.

if you follow these instructions as closely as possible, im 99% sure you will have a good hatch. but to be on the safe side, look for local eggs or use eggs from your own chickens if they are fertile. if you don't want the chicks you can always give them away if they hatch. its a lot better to lose a batch of $5/doz or less eggs, than to spend $50 on a rare breed and not have a hatch.
don't use refrigerated eggs. don't use eggs over 2 weeks old. throw away any eggs with signs of bacterial problems.

best of luck and keep me posted.


edited to add:
ancient Egyptians hatched eggs in cave like structures, controlling temp and humidity by feel. take a deep breath, relax and enjoy the process - don't try to force it.

 

[EggieRowe]

I'll give this a try as soon as I get more eggs I actually want. I eggtopsied the two cold ones from the broody. One early quitter and one perfect formed chick - positioned right just never pipped. Very frustrating.

My incubator only has one red plug, that my dog ate, so I use a piece of tape to close it. There's a hole in the corner, maybe 1/4 inch square for the autoturner cord, so that is open from lockdown on.

So the eggs I've opened after the due date - fully formed, no movement. They were dead, right? Not to be daft, but they don't go into some catatonic state before pipping that would look like death, do they?

 

[loveourbirds]

to me, it sounds like they are forming just a touch slow. if you break an egg to early they will move a little, so I am assuming your right and they were dead.