HYPOTHETICAL DISCUSSION: What to feed your chickens when we can't buy chicken feed anymore

[Missa Chickabee]

In a societal collapse I just want people to think for a moment. We have seven MILLION cats and dogs going into shelters country-wide each year. That's with serious efforts to STOP over-breeding and with FREE spay/neuter facilities and 3-4 million being euthanized every year. We still get 7 million each year. What happens to those animals in the first year of societal collapse? Probably seven million cats and dogs out on the streets. The majority of those are breeds people were unprepared to care for. And the next year? And the next? You really think that with a few LGDs you will protect a free-ranging flock from a pack of half-wild feral pitbulls? Sorry. Not happening. Much like coyotes which can kill LGD, these dogs will team up in packs and tear your dog to shreds. The difference is they're not scared of people, unlike coyotes, which means they will NOT be deterred. Cats will sneak into small places to steal chicks and are almost as nimble as raccoons at opening doors, and are barely domestic even in their domestic form.
And what happens when some nitwit with a poorly managed exotics collection releases a dozen unfixed human-raised tigers and lions and bears (oh my) into the north American forests?

Wow, ChocolateMouse. This I never thought of. But I know this...if people get hungry enough they will eat those pets-gone-feral.

Well, as I said, predators are thick here where we live. My back yard butts up to hundreds of very wild acres, replete with environmental lake and river a half mile through the woods. I have had three different kinds of footprints this past week trying to get into the chicken run...either by digging or just trying to bust down the run door. (Raccoons must be heavy. Something is pushing very hard and broke the very thick latch!) I've seen cat prints (my own cat stays in the house) and what looks like fox prints as well as the coon's

My point is, I cannot free range if I don't expect to lose chicken after chicken until they are gone. And never mind when they would start laying their eggs all over kingdom come, this inviting even more predators!

And so the purpose of this thread: To be creative about food sources for chickens that I will have to feed if we are going to keep having eggs.

I have already come to the thought that we need to overplant our gardens bigtime. (Now that is somewhere they could 'pasture.' We are hawk-thick here, too. I run 50# clear monofilament over my two runs. This has been a great deterrent for sky-predators. )

I want to start raising mealworms...another source of protein. This can be done in any corner of the house and apparently they stay confined. Need to get off my rear and make that happen. I call these 'chicken-cocaine'. They are just crazy for mealworms. I never thought about other bugs til you mentioned it.

I think we need to stock up on chicken vitamins (as well as for ourselves)

And I think we'd better be praying our guts out. (Now don't anybody run away. I make no apologies. I believe we're in for a world of hurt and we need to ask for divine help)

Also I think that we need to team up with others in our own areas and help each other.

 

[Missa Chickabee]

APOLOGIES! So sorry. I do get on a rant sometimes.

(will work on that) Anyway, I wanted to say sorry to all those who have suggested free-ranging. You better believe that if I could free-range them...I would. Our friends who live in a less pred-thick area have the same kind of birds I have. Their birds just look healthier: redder combs , shinier feathers with better color. And the eggs are bigger and nicer.

It's just that I can't do it and keep my birds alive, too. So I throw grass clippings over the fence to them when we mow and try to vary up their diet. Working on the bugs and worms part.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Frankly, the idea of millions of feral domestics scares me more than wolves, coyotes, possums... More than even coons. The cats I can deal with but the dogs will probably take over, inbreeding with both wolves and coyotes with viable offspring, creating a horrifying animal bigger and meaner than both.
And when people say they'll shoot 'em that's fine... They may even get eaten. But take a look at feral animal population studies for dogs and cats and you'll find that even trying to kill them enmasse does not work well. Like in Cairo, cat populations are so thick that they've been setting out poisioned feeding stations for the cats... But the drop in population has been minimal at best. In fact the best solution for limiting feral animal population numbers has been TNR which will no longer exist.


I find worms make up a fairly large part of my chickens diet. The have Deep Litter in their run, and most of what they dig up is earthworms.

We can also harvest grass like a grain, sprout it and grow it over the winter in sheets for forage. I see no reason why grasses can't be sprouted for forage as well as grains!

 

[Missa Chickabee]

Took the plunge. Ordered 1000 mealworms today. My chickens love the dried ones. Can't wait to see what they think of the live ones.

The Worm Man sells crickets also. Maybe later. We'll see how this goes. The set-up and process seems pretty simple. Just have to get past 'the willies'.

Flats of grasses. Great idea. I have also seen where 1/4 inch wire mesh is laid on flat ground, grass seed (or what have you) broadcast over that. That way apparently the grass remains rooted to grow again rather than scratched up, turning the run into a mud bath.

(I don't think wolves would breed with dogs. Wolves treat dogs as competition for food and kill them, sometimes luring them away from the dog's safe environment to do so. But I do think pack dogs could become a serious problem)

 

[LilyD]

Took the plunge. Ordered 1000 mealworms today. My chickens love the dried ones. Can't wait to see what they think of the live ones.

The Worm Man sells crickets also. Maybe later. We'll see how this goes. The set-up and process seems pretty simple. Just have to get past 'the willies'.

Flats of grasses. Great idea. I have also seen where 1/4 inch wire mesh is laid on flat ground, grass seed (or what have you) broadcast over that. That way apparently the grass remains rooted to grow again rather than scratched up, turning the run into a mud bath.

(I don't think wolves would breed with dogs. Wolves treat dogs as competition for food and kill them, sometimes luring them away from the dog's safe environment to do so. But I do think pack dogs could become a serious problem)

Wolves will actually breed with dogs. I had a lovely 50% wolf hybrid to prove it who was 50% Alaskan Timber Wolf and 50% Shepard. Was the sweetest girl I ever owned but was definitely a bit on the wild side hehe.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Well, grazing frames don't work in the winter. Flats do though!

And if wolf populations and dog populations intermingled enough they'd breed. It's been shown to happen every once in a blue moon as it is. Coyotes too. I worry more about dogs breeding with them. And all the offspring of all those mixes would be fertile. The fact is that dogs populations would wreak havoc on safer predators like wolves.

Not really sure how cats would work out. There's nothing like them around and they'd be close to the bottom of the carnivore food chain. They can spread a lot of nasty diseases around is my biggest concern with them. Of course they, too, will breed with small wild local cats (like bobcats) but in that case I think the bobcat would win out. Who knows, though!

Chickens can also be tractored. Which may be the best solution of all. I built a 4X4 tractor for my suburban lawn for about $10. Works like a charm!

 

[Triple Willow]

Hi ChocolateMouse and everybody else. I'm glad I found this thread because it looks like I have the same thoughts and ideas that most of you have. Of course my friends and family think I'm crazy but oh well... I hope to hear more ideas from you all.

A couple ideas I have:

LGD's as well as a personal protection dogs will be needed and very valuable should things go bad. They could be a source of income.

A greenhouse can be built exactly like a hoop coop, only with clear plastic instead of a tarp.

I plan on doing a little experimenting with heavy breed layers crossed with the flighty light breeds (such as AustralorpXAncona). They should have the same excellent egg production, eat less and be more predator savy. Also the game breeds should be considered.

One thing I think most people overlook, most predators are also edible. lol

 

[Triple Willow]

Also we would need to think about how we are going to feed our dogs. There would be few table scraps, probably not enough to feed one big dog. Years and years ago my grandfather always had several hunting dogs but at the same time struggled to feed his family. He didn't buy dogfood, ever. They made a skillet of "dog bread" for the dogs. It was just meal and water stirred together and baked. A whole lot of dogs survived on that and what little table scraps they had. When I run out of dogfood I also make "dog bread" but I'm sure I add more scraps than they did and sometimes I'll add a can of something from the pantry that we are not going to eat. I don't know, it may not be a balanced diet but dogs love it.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Willow; There are a lot of natural dog food options available even when there's not a lot to go around. In Alaska for sled dog races they feed their dogs kibble and milk in the races, but they also feed them fat. Just chunks of fat. Once the bare nutritional needs are met (not actually hard to do, TBH) the rest of their condition is just getting enough calories. Dogs can eat a chunk of frozen pig lard and it may not be as good for them as seal blubber but it would give them good conditioning. They can also eat parts of the animals we don't... Bones, skulls (my dogs LOVE whole rabbit skulls) feet, tails, skin... Even meat that's old and we can't eat it. Vegetable scraps too, and potatoes of all sorts make a big difference. I think it wouldn't be too hard to feed a dog. Dogs also have a trick of their own; they're capable of hunting small game. My sister's 40lb dog catches mice in her back yard. Dogs chase squirrels for a reason. It's possible that they would catch a small percentage of their own food.

I think a big consideration for me to feed myself and all my animals is fish. They're one of the most efficient feed conversions in the world. If you have the space to put in a small pond with a gravel bed full of reeds around it you could keep carp and catfish enough to see you through a lot of problems and they're one of the healthiest sources of food in the world. The other is my rabbits. The chickens eat rabbit, the dogs eat rabbit, I eat rabbit... And rabbits eat grass. I don't eat grass. Guinea pigs would also be a good call.

 

[Missa Chickabee]

Venison can go very far, too. I've been told rabbit is on the poor end nutritionally but venison is the most nutritional meat. I'll have to try guinea pig, Choc-Mouse. Will need to floss out those little bones, though.