you fit in a 648 sq. ft coop?
By "birds" I mean intensively managed laying hens, with limited access to the outdoors? Mostly kept indoors for the best egg production.
Hypothetical question....HOW MANY BIRDS
- Thread starter awesomefowl
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My chickens free range and I get one egg a day- from each bird. You can't expect more than that no matter how you "manage" them. The general rule of thumb on here is 4 feet per bird- but that is with access to the outdoors...
Quote:
Ummm... theoretically, if they're jam-packed in there, you could put 162 hens (that accounts for 4 sq ft each). At that size, you'll have probably have problems with feather picking, etc so I wouldn't recommend it.
Truthfully, my ideal size is at least 10 sq feet per bird, so 65 birds maximum, but I don't think that's feasible commercially.
I actually don't understand your reluctance to let them outside? If you let them outside, they'll probably lay more eggs because they'll be happier, and those eggs will have a higher nutritional benefit because of all the extra "goodies" that they eat. If you're worried about them laying outside, they probably won't. My girls much prefer to head back to the coop to lay than to lay somewhere outside, and they are free-ranged.
Good luck.
Ummm... theoretically, if they're jam-packed in there, you could put 162 hens (that accounts for 4 sq ft each). At that size, you'll have probably have problems with feather picking, etc so I wouldn't recommend it.
Truthfully, my ideal size is at least 10 sq feet per bird, so 65 birds maximum, but I don't think that's feasible commercially.
I actually don't understand your reluctance to let them outside? If you let them outside, they'll probably lay more eggs because they'll be happier, and those eggs will have a higher nutritional benefit because of all the extra "goodies" that they eat. If you're worried about them laying outside, they probably won't. My girls much prefer to head back to the coop to lay than to lay somewhere outside, and they are free-ranged.
Good luck.
I don't see the point of the question. This forum is for people who want to raise their chickens humanely.
"Best egg production" would be based on feed consumed vs. eggs produced, I assume. My best egg production, then, by far, is in the summer when they are free ranging and eating a lot less commercial feed. The question really doesn't make sense to me, even if I were not bothered by the concept of keeping them indoors.
- Thread starter
- #6
They would have access to outside. Please keep your shirts on-- I am very humane! Just trying to get an idea of cost and space requirements if I started a broiler and egg farm. I would NEVER be cruel to any animal I owned!
Sorry, it sounded like you just wanted to pack 'em in. If your chickens have access to the outside (real access, not just one little door out onto a small concrete patio) you could probably do one chicken per 10 sq feet. With so many in a space like that, you really want to avoid overcrowding or you'll just end up with the same problems battery farm have.
- Thread starter
- #8
Thanks! Anyone know how much feed a laying hen consumes per week or month? Is it really only 6 lbs a month?
Here are a couple of my favorite answers from a couple of our more prolific BYC members.
Honestly there is no magic number. A lot of BYCers keep their chickens at 4 sq ft apiece indoors plus suitable outdoor space; some keep them in less space; personally I have tried that and seen how they behave and will never keep them at less than 10-15 sq ft apiece *plus outdoors*.
If you wanted to give 4 sq ft apiece to 8 layers, that would only be a 4x8 coop, not very big at all! (Plus a run, or free range, or ideally both)
Meat chickens are a bit of a different thing... if you mean CornishX (supermarket style) birds, they can more-reasonably be kept in crowded conditions than layers can because they do not move around as much and also will only be "enjoying" your coop for 6-8 weeks before you kill and eat them. So a lot of people will keep them in 2-4 sq ft apiece TOTAL, and they do reasonably ok although sanitation/air-quality is a GIANT NIGHTMARE and you WILL NOT WANT THEM IN YOUR LAYER COOP, I am serious. (Even CornishX do benefit from more room and an outdoor run, though, at least health- and happiness-wise, although moving around more can mean slightly lower feed conversion efficiency). So if you wanted to give your 10 meaties 4 sq ft apiece total, that would mean something 4x10 or 5x8.
A whole lot of the space-requirement thing depends on your climate though. If you live in, like, Hawaii, and LITERALLY the chickens will never ever want to spend much of a day indoors because it is so yucky out, then truthfully all you need is room for adequate roosting space (8-12" per chicken is plenty -- this pertains only to layers, not meaties). If OTOH you live somewhere with viciously cold or snowy winters, then it is hard to predict what your particular chickens will do but quite often they will not want to go outside much if at all for days or even weeks at a time, and it is a real good idea to give extra space so they do not start killing each other.
The two main considerations space-wise are a) the more crowded they are, the more burdensome sanitation becomes and the harder it is to ensure adequate ventilation; and b) the more crowded they are, the likelier they will start engaging in pecking/cannibalism -- yes, they WILL kill each other if they happen to be grumpy that day or if they peck someone enough to see blood and get all excited about it -- and note that pecking/cannibalism problems cannot *always* be solved by providing more space, sometimes it becomes such a habit that the only thing to do is make a whoooole lotta chicken n dumplings and start a new flock.
But honestly it is not like you are proposing to have SO many chickens... I do not know what climate you are in, but for most peoples' purposes you'd do fine with a 4x8 or 6x8 (or larger if you can get it!) layer coop (e.g. secondhand garden shed) with a 5x8 lean-to roof built off one side to make a 3-walled pen for your meaties.
Good luck, have fun,
Pat
----------------
If you wanted to give 4 sq ft apiece to 8 layers, that would only be a 4x8 coop, not very big at all! (Plus a run, or free range, or ideally both)
Meat chickens are a bit of a different thing... if you mean CornishX (supermarket style) birds, they can more-reasonably be kept in crowded conditions than layers can because they do not move around as much and also will only be "enjoying" your coop for 6-8 weeks before you kill and eat them. So a lot of people will keep them in 2-4 sq ft apiece TOTAL, and they do reasonably ok although sanitation/air-quality is a GIANT NIGHTMARE and you WILL NOT WANT THEM IN YOUR LAYER COOP, I am serious. (Even CornishX do benefit from more room and an outdoor run, though, at least health- and happiness-wise, although moving around more can mean slightly lower feed conversion efficiency). So if you wanted to give your 10 meaties 4 sq ft apiece total, that would mean something 4x10 or 5x8.
A whole lot of the space-requirement thing depends on your climate though. If you live in, like, Hawaii, and LITERALLY the chickens will never ever want to spend much of a day indoors because it is so yucky out, then truthfully all you need is room for adequate roosting space (8-12" per chicken is plenty -- this pertains only to layers, not meaties). If OTOH you live somewhere with viciously cold or snowy winters, then it is hard to predict what your particular chickens will do but quite often they will not want to go outside much if at all for days or even weeks at a time, and it is a real good idea to give extra space so they do not start killing each other.
The two main considerations space-wise are a) the more crowded they are, the more burdensome sanitation becomes and the harder it is to ensure adequate ventilation; and b) the more crowded they are, the likelier they will start engaging in pecking/cannibalism -- yes, they WILL kill each other if they happen to be grumpy that day or if they peck someone enough to see blood and get all excited about it -- and note that pecking/cannibalism problems cannot *always* be solved by providing more space, sometimes it becomes such a habit that the only thing to do is make a whoooole lotta chicken n dumplings and start a new flock.
But honestly it is not like you are proposing to have SO many chickens... I do not know what climate you are in, but for most peoples' purposes you'd do fine with a 4x8 or 6x8 (or larger if you can get it!) layer coop (e.g. secondhand garden shed) with a 5x8 lean-to roof built off one side to make a 3-walled pen for your meaties.
Good luck, have fun,
Pat
----------------
Ridgerunner:
I think it is a very good question. In general, we do not try to keep them in the same conditions you find in commercial operations so our suggestions may seem out there to some people. We don't automatically trim their beaks so they can't peck each other to death, for example, so we do need to provide more space than the commercial operations.
The 4 and 10 are general guidelines that keep most people out of trouble most of the time. I think you do need a place to start. We all have different situations, different management practices, and different goals so there is no one correct answer for all of us. Here is a write-up I did a while back on the subject. I don't have a PhD in chicken space management for the home flock. It is just my thoughts on the subject, Hope it helps you a bit.
As long as you have enough height for the roosts to be noticeably higher than the nest boxes, height does not matter to chickens. They are basically ground dwelling birds, so the ground area is all that really matters space wise. I said it does not matter to the chickens. It does matter to me if I have to work in there. It matters quite a bit.
If the nest boxes are high enough off the ground that the chickens can easily get under them (measured from the top of the litter), then nest boxes do not take away from the space available. The tops of the nesting boxes do not add to the living space either although they may occasionally be up there. Ground level is what counts.
Some of the things that make up the space requirement are, in my opinion:
1. Personal space for the birds. They have different personalities and different individual requirements. Some are very possessive of personal space and some can share.
2. Access to feeder and waterer. The general recommendation is that they all be able to eat at one time, but access to the waterer is also important. Part of this is that they seem to like to all eat at once but not necessarily drink at the same time. Part of it is that a dominant bird may keep others from eating or drinking, especially with limited access.
3. Being able to put the feeder and waterer where they will not poop in it when they roost.
4. Roost space. They not only need to have enough room to roost, they need to have enough room for them to sort out who gets to sleep next to whom and who gets the prime spots. They also need enough room to get on the roosts and get off them. When they get on, they may jump from some midway support or fly directly to the roost, but either way, they like to spread their wings. And some chickens seem to enjoy blocking the entry points if there are limits. And when they get off, mine tend to want to fly down, not jump to a halfway point. They need room to fly down without bumping into feeders, waterers, nesting boxes, or a wall.
5. Poop load. The larger area they have the less often you have to actively manage the poop. They poop a lot while on the roost so you may have to give that area special consideration, but mucking out the entire coop can be backbreaking work plus you have to have some place to put all that bedding and poop. In my opinion, totally cleaning out the coop is something that needs to happen as seldom as possible.
6. How often are they able to get out of the coop. The more they are confined to the coop, the larger the personal space needs to be. The normal recommendation on this forum is 4 square feet per full sized chicken with a minimum of 10 square feet of run per bird. This additional requirement outside is sometimes not mentioned. How often they are allowed out of the coop may depend on a lot more than just weather. Your work schedule, when you are able to turn them loose, what time of day you open the pop door to let them out or lock them up at night, all this and more enters into the equation. The 4 square feet recommendation assumes they will spend extended time in the coop and not be able to get in the run. What that extended time can safely be depends on a lot of different factor so there is no one correct length of time for everyone.
7. Do you feed and water in the coop or outside. The more they are outside, the less pressure on the size of the coop.
8. The size of the chicken. Bantams require less room than full sized chickens. This has to be tempered by breed and the individual personalities. Some bantams can be more protective of personal space than others, but this is also true of full sized breeds.
9. The breed of the chicken. Some handle confinement better than others.
10. The number of chickens. The greater the number of chickens, the more personal space they can have if the square foot per chicken stays constant. Let me explain. Assume each chicken occupies 1 square foot of space. If you have two chickens and 4 square feet per chicken, the two chickens occupy 2 square feet, which leaves 6 square feet for them to explore. If you have ten chickens with 4 square feet per chicken, each chicken has 30 unoccupied square feet to explore. A greater number also can give more space to position the feeders and waterers properly in relation to the roosts and provide access. Im not encouraging you to crowd your birds if you have a large number of them. Im trying to say you are more likely to get in trouble with 4 square feet per chicken if you have very few chickens.
11. What is your flock make-up. A flock with more than one rooster may be more peaceful if it has more space. I don't want to start the argument about number or roosters here as I know more than one rooster can often peacefully coexist with a flock, but I firmly believe more space helps.
12. What is the maximum number of chickens you will have. Consider hatching chicks or bringing in replacements. Look down the road a bit.
I'm sure I am missing several components, but the point I'm trying to make is that we all have different conditions. There is no magic number that suits us all. The 4 square feet in a coop with 10 square feet in the run is a good rule of thumb for a minimum that most of the time will keep us out of trouble, but not always. I do believe that more is better both in the coop and in the run.
I think it is a very good question. In general, we do not try to keep them in the same conditions you find in commercial operations so our suggestions may seem out there to some people. We don't automatically trim their beaks so they can't peck each other to death, for example, so we do need to provide more space than the commercial operations.
The 4 and 10 are general guidelines that keep most people out of trouble most of the time. I think you do need a place to start. We all have different situations, different management practices, and different goals so there is no one correct answer for all of us. Here is a write-up I did a while back on the subject. I don't have a PhD in chicken space management for the home flock. It is just my thoughts on the subject, Hope it helps you a bit.
As long as you have enough height for the roosts to be noticeably higher than the nest boxes, height does not matter to chickens. They are basically ground dwelling birds, so the ground area is all that really matters space wise. I said it does not matter to the chickens. It does matter to me if I have to work in there. It matters quite a bit.
If the nest boxes are high enough off the ground that the chickens can easily get under them (measured from the top of the litter), then nest boxes do not take away from the space available. The tops of the nesting boxes do not add to the living space either although they may occasionally be up there. Ground level is what counts.
Some of the things that make up the space requirement are, in my opinion:
1. Personal space for the birds. They have different personalities and different individual requirements. Some are very possessive of personal space and some can share.
2. Access to feeder and waterer. The general recommendation is that they all be able to eat at one time, but access to the waterer is also important. Part of this is that they seem to like to all eat at once but not necessarily drink at the same time. Part of it is that a dominant bird may keep others from eating or drinking, especially with limited access.
3. Being able to put the feeder and waterer where they will not poop in it when they roost.
4. Roost space. They not only need to have enough room to roost, they need to have enough room for them to sort out who gets to sleep next to whom and who gets the prime spots. They also need enough room to get on the roosts and get off them. When they get on, they may jump from some midway support or fly directly to the roost, but either way, they like to spread their wings. And some chickens seem to enjoy blocking the entry points if there are limits. And when they get off, mine tend to want to fly down, not jump to a halfway point. They need room to fly down without bumping into feeders, waterers, nesting boxes, or a wall.
5. Poop load. The larger area they have the less often you have to actively manage the poop. They poop a lot while on the roost so you may have to give that area special consideration, but mucking out the entire coop can be backbreaking work plus you have to have some place to put all that bedding and poop. In my opinion, totally cleaning out the coop is something that needs to happen as seldom as possible.
6. How often are they able to get out of the coop. The more they are confined to the coop, the larger the personal space needs to be. The normal recommendation on this forum is 4 square feet per full sized chicken with a minimum of 10 square feet of run per bird. This additional requirement outside is sometimes not mentioned. How often they are allowed out of the coop may depend on a lot more than just weather. Your work schedule, when you are able to turn them loose, what time of day you open the pop door to let them out or lock them up at night, all this and more enters into the equation. The 4 square feet recommendation assumes they will spend extended time in the coop and not be able to get in the run. What that extended time can safely be depends on a lot of different factor so there is no one correct length of time for everyone.
7. Do you feed and water in the coop or outside. The more they are outside, the less pressure on the size of the coop.
8. The size of the chicken. Bantams require less room than full sized chickens. This has to be tempered by breed and the individual personalities. Some bantams can be more protective of personal space than others, but this is also true of full sized breeds.
9. The breed of the chicken. Some handle confinement better than others.
10. The number of chickens. The greater the number of chickens, the more personal space they can have if the square foot per chicken stays constant. Let me explain. Assume each chicken occupies 1 square foot of space. If you have two chickens and 4 square feet per chicken, the two chickens occupy 2 square feet, which leaves 6 square feet for them to explore. If you have ten chickens with 4 square feet per chicken, each chicken has 30 unoccupied square feet to explore. A greater number also can give more space to position the feeders and waterers properly in relation to the roosts and provide access. Im not encouraging you to crowd your birds if you have a large number of them. Im trying to say you are more likely to get in trouble with 4 square feet per chicken if you have very few chickens.
11. What is your flock make-up. A flock with more than one rooster may be more peaceful if it has more space. I don't want to start the argument about number or roosters here as I know more than one rooster can often peacefully coexist with a flock, but I firmly believe more space helps.
12. What is the maximum number of chickens you will have. Consider hatching chicks or bringing in replacements. Look down the road a bit.
I'm sure I am missing several components, but the point I'm trying to make is that we all have different conditions. There is no magic number that suits us all. The 4 square feet in a coop with 10 square feet in the run is a good rule of thumb for a minimum that most of the time will keep us out of trouble, but not always. I do believe that more is better both in the coop and in the run.
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