I have been trying to make my own feed/seed mix and want to if this is good

[nao57]

Don't some animals, not be able to eat wheat? So what animals are you trying to feed? Also some animals can eat sprouted wheatgrass but not the wheat grains...

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Don't some animals, not be able to eat wheat? So what animals are you trying to feed? Also some animals can eat sprouted wheatgrass but not the wheat grains...

Some humans. Many carnivores.

Chickens do just fine on wheat, apart from a tendency to have paler yolks than when fed on corn.

I've not seen any research suggesting things that can't eat wheat can eat wheat grass, though I've made no particular search for it. Source, please?

 

[nao57]

Some humans. Many carnivores.

Chickens do just fine on wheat, apart from a tendency to have paler yolks than when fed on corn.

I've not seen any research suggesting things that can't eat wheat can eat wheat grass, though I've made no particular search for it. Source, please?

Thanks for the reply.

OK... I think I got a bit confused. Its not so much that you can't feed them grains but some can get sick if you do. And it becomes risky. So sometimes because you are thinking in your mind welll that one can make them sick or bloated easier and has many conditions attached that you in your mind think I'm not doing that one to the animals. And then... well it was sort of worded bad.. Its not a mistake but it half way is.

So let me explain it;

People say you can feed grain wheat to cows. BUT they say they have a much bigger chance of getting bloated if you do. And they say that you shouldn't feed them more than 50% wheat too.

With sheep they say don't feed them it if they aren't used to it. And that feeding it to them in large amounts can cause problems.

This document attached has a paragraph that says; "Sheep which have been accustomed to one typeof grain can not immediately adjust to another.Consequently, deaths and a high incidence oftender wool can result from a sudden switch offeed." (deaths is bad).

There's similar information where people say you can't feed beans to chickens. But other people have come back and said well if the beans are cooked and have WATER in them that its fine. Or sprouted is fine. This is a separate example to help make it clear.

This second reference shows some guidelines for doing wheat to cattle and mentions some risks that many don't like. (Therefore many won't do that.)

https://u.osu.edu/beef/2010/06/30/feeding-wheat-to-beef-cattle/

 

[Debbie292d]

Don't some animals, not be able to eat wheat? So what animals are you trying to feed? Also some animals can eat sprouted wheatgrass but not the wheat grains...

Most of the scratch people buy have whole grains, including wheat in it.

That said, I don't buy scratch, but buy 50# hard red winter wheat to mix with HHR (Henhouse Reserve), whole oats, and other small grains for ferment.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thanks for the reply.

OK... I think I got a bit confused. Its not so much that you can't feed them grains but some can get sick if you do. And it becomes risky. So sometimes because you are thinking in your mind welll that one can make them sick or bloated easier and has many conditions attached that you in your mind think I'm not doing that one to the animals. And then... well it was sort of worded bad.. Its not a mistake but it half way is.

So let me explain it;

People say you can feed grain wheat to cows. BUT they say they have a much bigger chance of getting bloated if you do. And they say that you shouldn't feed them more than 50% wheat too.

With sheep they say don't feed them it if they aren't used to it. And that feeding it to them in large amounts can cause problems.

This document attached has a paragraph that says; "Sheep which have been accustomed to one typeof grain can not immediately adjust to another.Consequently, deaths and a high incidence oftender wool can result from a sudden switch offeed." (deaths is bad).

There's similar information where people say you can't feed beans to chickens. But other people have come back and said well if the beans are cooked and have WATER in them that its fine. Or sprouted is fine. This is a separate example to help make it clear.

This second reference shows some guidelines for doing wheat to cattle and mentions some risks that many don't like. (Therefore many won't do that.)

https://u.osu.edu/beef/2010/06/30/feeding-wheat-to-beef-cattle/

Ultimately, you are talking about anti-nutritive properties, which is something I try and take into account when looking at a feed recipe - but I would caution you that general hazards appropriate to ruminants like cattle don't necessarily translate to chickens. Chicken's digestion shares more in common with our own than cattle, sheep, or goats. Even then, there's some important differences in the way we and chickens make use of differing sources of phosphorus, different "types" of methionine, etc.

However, in the instant case, we can't even make a "working" feed recipe from the available ingredients hitting top line targets of crude protein, fiber, fat, energy. No point sweating the small stuff here = that's like picking at the stitching on your ball when you don't have a field to play in, or a team to play with.

 

[Altairsky]

The problem is that chickens are omnivores. In the wild, they eat large amount of bugs and even meat (mice, lizards, snakes, frogs, etc.). Therefore it's basically impossible to find a "working" feed recipe that does not include animal protein.
Diets based on seeds need animal protein integration to properly work.

 

[BDutch]

Its not so much that you can't feed them grains but some can get sick if you do. And it becomes risky.

Never heard before that chickens can get sick from wheat or other grains the manufacturers put in the scratch they sell here.
Obvious you should not feed them just one type of grains. My manufacturer says scratch should be no more than ⅓ of their food intake to avoid problems. Scratch is mainly giving a lot by chicken owners who let the chickens free range in a green environment like a natural garden, a meadow or in a forest.

It has no use to compare chickens with sheep or cows. They are both herbivores (mainly grass eaters) and have a complete other digesting systems.

 

[BDutch]

Therefore it's basically impossible to find a "working" feed recipe that does not include animal protein.
Diets based on seeds need animal protein integration to properly work.

A feed with soy and other high protein veggies + add vitamines, methionine and such is much cheaper than adding insects or dried meat. So the manufacturers sell that. With these kind of balanced vegan feed, the farmers are able to sell cheap eggs and chicken meat.

A couple of decades ago some manufacturers started to add cheap meat-waste from slaughterhouses into the feed. With people getting sick as a result (BSE).

Because of health risks it was forbidden to put insects and meat in animal feed in my country for a long time. They also included the chicken feed. And it was forbidden to collect the waste food from restaurants and supermarkets to give to animals too.

Nowadays the dried insects are allowed again. But this feed is more expensive and probably only sold to hobbyists. I can buy feed with insects in the pet shop. The manufacturer I buy from, sells feed to commercial chicken farms and smallholders and it’s not in their catalogue. Most commercially hold chickens don’t come outside to free range. And it’s in the manufacturer and farmers interest to provide healthy food to be able to produce much eggs and plentiful meat.

Billions of chickens never had anything but vegan feed.

Article WUR (Wageningen University & Research) about insects in feed. Feeding insects natural and sustainable

 

[Altairsky]

A feed with soy and other high protein veggies + add vitamines, methionine

Op is asking for a seed-only diet, he's not asking for industrial feed. Obviously, industrial feed has all the chemicals a chicken need but OP might not have access to it or he might not want to use it for whatever reason.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

OP is in a country w/ limited options, and is trying to get away from the commercial options they do have. Unfortunately, w/o a defatted legume or seed meal available to perform similar purpose to widespread use of soy meal (here in the US) or a quality animal/insect/fish protein source to work with, target protein levels (and a good amino acid profile w/i that crude protein number) can't be achieved. And that's before considering vitamins, minerals, etc.