I have lots of questions about mites

[BesideStillWaters]

I've been reading different threads and different articles on mites and some opinions seem to conflict, so I was hoping to get some clarification on a few things.

What I'm dealing with:

I had one chicken, Banshee, that had an injury and was bullied when I tried to reintroduce her to the flock a week later. I had chicks in our bathroom that I raised and they were way too big for the little cage, so I moved the chicks into the large cage and moved Banshee into the small cage in the bathroom. I was horrified to see mites in the bedding a few days later. Found it it was in the feed. I took her and the cage outside, cleaned everything I could (some mites on the floor but thankfully it wasn't any worse than that) and sprinkled seven dust on the floor where the cage was for good measure, in case I missed a few when sweeping and cleaning.

Fast forward another few days, and the flock starts shaking their heads a LOT and I thought those killer buffalo gnats were bothering them again, so I sprayed them with vanilla. This time, it didn't help. I didn't see any signs of mites around the vent, so I was so confused. (I couldn't check every chicken though, because most don't appreciate me picking them up and looking at their backsides. ) But when I picked up one of my roosters, Bae, and got VERY close to his face, I could see tiny glimmers of something shining off his face. I think they may be Northern Fowl Mites. My friend found this article: https://www.hobbyfarms.com/parasite...AjthSDHo8HwyOCGmNIX1kfMybtXbbNv1D9OJICx1_ZrtQ However, they aren't red, they are more grayish white looking to me, so I'm wondering if they are juvenile mites...? Whatever they are, I want them off the chickens, obviously.

The questions:

If these are Northern Fowl mites, what are the odds some of those got loose in the bathroom while Banshee was in there? I also brought Banshee into the master bedroom (carpeted room) when I first brought her inside to show my bed-ridden dad my beautiful girl - what are the odds any dropped off Banshee and onto the carpet in there? I seven dusted the carpet after bringing Banshee in just to be safe, now I'm glad I did, but I'm still a nervous wreck.

Some people say chicken mites don't go for humans, and others say that's a myth. This is one place that says they WILL bite humans but are unable to complete their life cycle. (I'm assuming this means they are not able to reproduce?) https://dermnetnz.org/topics/bird-m...AjthSDHo8HwyOCGmNIX1kfMybtXbbNv1D9OJICx1_ZrtQ
"Although they may feed on human blood, bird mites are not able to complete their life cycle on humans and they do not burrow beneath the skin." (So on chickens they burrow beneath the skin?! Wha?)
However, I found someone linked to this and it says it has been known to feed on humans. http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/livestock/poultry/chicken_mite.htm So does this mean they will feed on humans but cannot reproduce? This is very confusing.

If I handle the chickens, will these mites get on me, and if they do, will simply showing get them off? I don't want to spread the mites to our house or other chickens. However, when I discovered the grain mites, I moved Banshee's small cage and put it on top of the large cage (with cardboard between the layers to prevent Banshee from pooping on the chicks). I have a feeling it may be too late and the damage is done at this point.

Looks like some people prefer seven dust and others prefer permethrin to get rid of these things on the birds themselves. I have one rooster that we bought last year that I can't catch. If I mix up some DE and seven dust to add to the dust bathing area and let him dust himself, will that take care of any mites on him? (Otherwise I don't know how I can get rid of the mites on him if he has any.) The one thing that seems fairly consistent is that DE is useless to kill but might be used as a preventative. Since it rained and the ground is wet, I wanted to offer DE and seven dust in the place of the dirt. (I'm also looking into ordering some permethrin dust, but it will take a few days to ship. Wanted to try something in the meantime.)

If I have any other questions, I'll add them here later, but I think this is a pretty good start. I know the first thing I need to do is clean out the chicken house and cover everything in permethrin, so I'm going to do that shortly. Any advice is welcome!

 

[HiEverybirdy]

I can't answer all your questions but can share about our experience with northern fowl mites. We started seeing them last year, during the Great Mite-splosion of 2020. Thank goodness that's over.

Mites do glimmer but are generally brown. It's possible your gray things are something else, like lice. Photos from a few of the birds [who you can catch] might help. If you can't get to their vents, you can also check bases of their neck feathers and back feathers near their preen gland.

I've not been bitten by a mite. During the mite-splosion, they were all over my arms many times those first few weeks (ARGH, they're so creepy), but shower/laundry did the trick.

The most helpful chemicals in our mite fight have been the following (if they end up being lice, you'd likely use the same kinds of chemicals but different dosages).

• GardStar Garden and Poultry Dust ($8-ish at TSC)
• Elector PSP (it was like $130! on Amazon)
• Pour-on Ivermectin for birds whose meat and eggs we don't intend to sell, since it's not approved for food-producing livestock, which is a whole other conversation ($22 at TSC)

Others have had great luck with the liquid Permethrin. It did nothing for us. Maybe I mixed it wrong or just tried it too early in the journey, when nothing would've worked very well.

I'm not a big fan of DE for many reasons, so can't comment much on it, besides to say I wouldn't mix DE or the Poultry Dust with their dustbaths, as they breathe and eat what they dustbathe in.

In our experience, good dustbaths are incredibly effective on their own, without added chemicals. Once we got the birds and their coops as mite-free as possible, they've been able to kick most recurring mites with regular dustbaths.

We do add fresh garlic to their water from time to time. Not sure if that helps, but in moderation, it doesn't hurt.

I've only ever had to dip one bird, the one with the worst mites, our big rooster. That was before I learned about Ivermectin and after trying liquid Permethrin and poultry dust for a month and seeing mites return weekly. I was at wit's end, so invested in the wildly expensive Elector PSP, mixed the recommended dose with warm water in a storage bin, and he LOVED it. You've never seen such a proud, wet chicken. It was obvious he felt immediately better.

The others got spritzed on vents and under their wings, and I sprayed down the roosts and all the crannies around the coops. Repeated the process in 2 weeks (except just spritzed the rooster instead of dipping him again). We were mite free for a couple months. Recurrences have been far smaller than mite-splosion. Of course, I also catch them more quickly because I know what to look for now.

Good luck in your journey! Such a pain in the butt to find those things, but with a little diligence, you can kick them. There are much worse problems to have.

 

[HiEverybirdy]

Oh! A few more things:

- Mites percolate for some time prior to us seeing them, so don't go blaming yourself for spreading them around. They've spread long before we even detect their presence. That's why you treat the whole flock when you see mites on one bird, particularly in the beginning.

- The internet is a blessing but can be exhausting in how much conflicting information is out there. I was in the same boat as you in not knowing what to believe. Time and experience will help greatly, as your truth will be different than anyone else's when it comes to what works.

- That's sweet of you to share your chickens with with your dad I know chickens would cheer me up all kinds of ways if I were bed-ridden.

 

[Kellow1]

Don't use Seven Dust to treat your egg laying chickens. It has been banned and has permanent egg withdrawal!!

 

[BesideStillWaters]

I managed to get photos, and unexpectedly, Wild Thang (the boy I couldn't catch) is fine with the camera. Just no touching him. So I have photos of him. It's bad. There are more than I first thought.

The best I can see in the vent area:

In the center of this photo is some bug that gt on m when cleaning the chicken house and it bit me. it really stung whatever it is.

This is another bug I found:

It's kind of hard to see, but in the center of this photo is what I suspect are red mites? There were a ton of these in the chicken house and run, but none that I saw on the chickens. They like to hang out on the poo nad under the food and water dishes:

 

[BesideStillWaters]

I can't answer all your questions but can share about our experience with northern fowl mites. We started seeing them last year, during the Great Mite-splosion of 2020. Thank goodness that's over.

Mites do glimmer but are generally brown. It's possible your gray things are something else, like lice. Photos from a few of the birds [who you can catch] might help. If you can't get to their vents, you can also check bases of their neck feathers and back feathers near their preen gland.

I've not been bitten by a mite. During the mite-splosion, they were all over my arms many times those first few weeks (ARGH, they're so creepy), but shower/laundry did the trick.

The most helpful chemicals in our mite fight have been the following (if they end up being lice, you'd likely use the same kinds of chemicals but different dosages).

• GardStar Garden and Poultry Dust ($8-ish at TSC)
• Elector PSP (it was like $130! on Amazon)
• Pour-on Ivermectin for birds whose meat and eggs we don't intend to sell, since it's not approved for food-producing livestock, which is a whole other conversation ($22 at TSC)

Others have had great luck with the liquid Permethrin. It did nothing for us. Maybe I mixed it wrong or just tried it too early in the journey, when nothing would've worked very well.

I'm not a big fan of DE for many reasons, so can't comment much on it, besides to say I wouldn't mix DE or the Poultry Dust with their dustbaths, as they breathe and eat what they dustbathe in.

In our experience, good dustbaths are incredibly effective on their own, without added chemicals. Once we got the birds and their coops as mite-free as possible, they've been able to kick most recurring mites with regular dustbaths.

We do add fresh garlic to their water from time to time. Not sure if that helps, but in moderation, it doesn't hurt.

I've only ever had to dip one bird, the one with the worst mites, our big rooster. That was before I learned about Ivermectin and after trying liquid Permethrin and poultry dust for a month and seeing mites return weekly. I was at wit's end, so invested in the wildly expensive Elector PSP, mixed the recommended dose with warm water in a storage bin, and he LOVED it. You've never seen such a proud, wet chicken. It was obvious he felt immediately better.

The others got spritzed on vents and under their wings, and I sprayed down the roosts and all the crannies around the coops. Repeated the process in 2 weeks (except just spritzed the rooster instead of dipping him again). We were mite free for a couple months. Recurrences have been far smaller than mite-splosion. Of course, I also catch them more quickly because I know what to look for now.

Good luck in your journey! Such a pain in the butt to find those things, but with a little diligence, you can kick them. There are much worse problems to have.

Glad you made it through the mite explosion of 2020!

Uploaded photos.

Yes they are creepy, ugh!

We live in the middle of nowhere, but I think we might go to town in the next few days and I'll pick up that GardStar at TSC then.

The liquid permethrin did wonders against gnats, but this is the first time we're trying it on mites, so we'll see how it goes.

If I may ask, what do your chickens dustbathe in? There is one spot that the dirt is perfect for dust bathing, but I can't let the rooster out of the run because I can't call him back if I need to like I can the girls. I'd like to make him a dust bathing area in his run but I wasn't sure if dry dirt is good or something else might be better. Some of my girls have been dust bathing in my potting soil and I wasn't sure whether or not to stop them.

Mmm garlic. So you cut up cloves and stick it in there?

Gad the dip helped your big rooster! I'm scared to try it with mine because I'm not sure I can handle him. He'll be thrashing about and get the dip everywhere including in his eyes.

Thank you!

 

[BesideStillWaters]

Oh! A few more things:

- Mites percolate for some time prior to us seeing them, so don't go blaming yourself for spreading them around. They've spread long before we even detect their presence. That's why you treat the whole flock when you see mites on one bird, particularly in the beginning.

- The internet is a blessing but can be exhausting in how much conflicting information is out there. I was in the same boat as you in not knowing what to believe. Time and experience will help greatly, as your truth will be different than anyone else's when it comes to what works.

- That's sweet of you to share your chickens with with your dad I know chickens would cheer me up all kinds of ways if I were bed-ridden.

Thanks, I just can't believe I missed it because we had a mite explosion in 2020, but it was grain mites. They hatched out of some old dog food. Didn't notice them until they had infested the entire bathroom (the dog food was in there, I thought it was a bucket of cat litter, imagine my surprise when I opened it and found old dog food and mites ). There were thousands, climbing the walls, all over the floor, ceiling, all cabinets and doors, the toilet and shower... it was a nightmare. I've been paranoid since then, which is why when we had some hatch out of some cat food last week, I noticed before they got in all the chicken feed and all over the living room.

Thanks for the encouragement! I'm hoping the seven dust and liquid permethrin will give them some relief until the powder permethrin comes in and we get to TSC to get the poultry powder.

He was surprised for sure. He didn't expect to see Banshee, I've been bringing in baby chicks for him to see and then suddenly a full-grown hen. He said, "That's huge!" Banshee isn't even the biggest hen I have.

 

[BesideStillWaters]

Don't use Seven Dust to treat your egg laying chickens. It has been banned and has permanent egg withdrawal!!

What??? We've used seven dust (5%) for years. My parents used it on the chickens we had when I was a teen with no problems. Why was it banned? We also ate the eggs and it was fine.

Found this:

Permethrin works too and is approved for use on chickens. That’s probably your best way to go.

Sevin was approved for use with chickens, the 5% stuff, until a couple of years ago. It’s now considered off-label. It’s not that they learned anything new about it, their main research on it is from the 1970’s and 1980’s. They’ve changed the way they look at whether something is recommended or not. It used to be “does it do harm”. Now it’s whether or not there is any residue after a time period.

Poison is poison. If it is meant to kill, it is meant to kill. No matter which one you use try hard to not breathe the fumes or dust. A face mask is a good idea. Treat the chickens in an open well-ventilated place. Of course, wash up and change clothes after you treat. That’s normal precautions anytime you us a poison. I’d suggest you treat the chickens and the coop fairly early in the day and open the coop up so it can air out. Even if it were late in the day when you treat I’d still keep them in the coop overnight.

I spoke to a poultry medical expert a few years back about using Sevin to treat mites and lice, back when it was on-label. He said there was no withdrawal period for the eggs if you treated with Sevin. That means you do not have to wait a day or two before you can eat the eggs after treatment. I’m not familiar with using permethrin to treat chickens for mites or lice, if there is a withdrawal period on the eggs or not. I suspect there is not but I have not checked into it. If your product is recommended for use on chickens (on-label) read the label and see if it says anything about withdrawal periods. If there are any concerns it should say something. If it doesn’t say anything about withdrawal periods I would not be concerned about it.

You probably know this. If one chicken has them they all do so treat them all. Treatment will not kill the eggs so treat again in a week to 10 days to get the ones that hatch out. Good luck on getting rid of them.

 

[BesideStillWaters]

A couple more questions: How do you get the dust or spray on the chickens without them throwing a fit? How do you get it on them if you can't catch them or hold them?

Is this skin redness / feather loss caused by mites, or is she molting? I think around this time last year she started her molt.

 

[BesideStillWaters]

I managed to get photos, and unexpectedly, Wild Thang (the boy I couldn't catch) is fine with the camera. Just no touching him. So I have photos of him. It's bad. There are more than I first thought.

View attachment 2683995

View attachment 2683998

The best I can see in the vent area:

View attachment 2684008

I managed to catch Wild Thang, holding onto him wasn't easy. We sprayed him with the permethrin under the wings, around the vent area, and some on his back and chest before he got out of my grip. (He made sure I didn't have mites too with the amount that ended up on me in the struggle. ) How long before we should notice it's working?