I may be growing my own food for the chickens after all, due to genetic editing

[saysfaa]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-me-research-study-on-fermented-feed.1428955/

Has link to

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2405654518300581#bib10

I especially like the links to related studies.

From the intro, "Due to increases in global feed prices, there is now a tendency in the poultry industry to move towards alternative or unconventional feed ingredients. This move is however limited by several issues: high and low fibre and protein contents and the presences of antinutritional factors (ANF) in unconventional feed ingredients that can reduce feed digestibility. Previous studies have shown that fermentation increased crude protein content but decreased crude fibre content (Khempaka et al., 2014, Sugiharto et al., 2015a, Sugiharto et al., 2016a), several ANF and toxic compounds in feed ingredients (Chiang et al., 2010, Xu et al., 2012)...."

 

[saysfaa]

I haven't given up on the idea, just been crazy busy lately. I've made some progress. I now have my own copy of Gene Logsdon's book, "Small Scale Grain Raising" and read it, of course. I highly recommend it.

Otherwise, I've been working on getting basic machinery and tools rather than figuring out what to grow. That sounds a little backward but I'm still at the very basic level - tractor, disk, mower, fence post hole digger, hoes, and such. Also, setting up a place to store the machinery and tools under a roof.

I'm also getting some irrigation going and deer fencing up.

Fyi, Logsdon's book talks about growing grain on the "pancake patch" scale - less than the amount that needs a tractor. And a little bigger.

 

[raingarden]

I haven't given up on the idea, just been crazy busy lately. I've made some progress. I now have my own copy of Gene Logsdon's book, "Small Scale Grain Raising" and read it, of course. I highly recommend it.

Otherwise, I've been working on getting basic machinery and tools rather than figuring out what to grow. That sounds a little backward but I'm still at the very basic level - tractor, disk, mower, fence post hole digger, hoes, and such. Also, setting up a place to store the machinery and tools under a roof.

I'm also getting some irrigation going and deer fencing up.

Fyi, Logsdon's book talks about growing grain on the "pancake patch" scale - less than the amount that needs a tractor. And a little bigger.

Good move. The whole GMO genetic editing issue is pretty much irrelevant if you can't grow the stuff.

 

[saysfaa]

One more piece to my puzzle (dealing with selenium-deficient soil)

From https://www.naturalpedia.com/methionine-sources-health-benefits-and-uses.html

"methionine aids in the transportation and absorption of selenium and zinc, two minerals that act in a similar fashion to antioxidants and eliminate free radicals."

In humans, at least. The source is one of the more comprehensive overviews of what methionine does.

 

[Cryss]

Limited farms? We used to have a huge agricultural culture here. Farms have been forced out of business My own family’s large dairy farm was such a victim. Farms have been paid to NOT grow various produce. Farms that are are main can only sell perfect products. Millions of tons of oddly shaped food is thrown away. Sell by dates cause stores to throw away food that has plenty of nutrition and isn’t going to go bad for quite a long time yet. We have been conditioned to throw away “old” food. I watched a friend throw away an orange because she bought it a week ago. There is no reason to believe we can’t grow enough food for Everyone without modifying it genetically.And you don’t need to take my word for it. Just research it.

 

[saysfaa]

Another piece of the puzzle
Link to foods high in met (not a complete list but has many that are not on most lists)

The reference is for people; next step is to check on the suitability for chicken feed. And convert the numbers to what chickens need instead of what people need.

These are the most likely to be of interest to me given my location in the order they are given on that website

60 Nuts and Seeds Highest in Met​

Ranked by amount in 100 g

933 mg Hemp Seeds, hulled
611 mg Butternuts, dried
603 mg Pumpkin/squash seeds, dried
595 mg Pumpkin/squash seeds, roasted
560 mg Sesame seeds, whole, toasted, roasted
494 mg Sunflower seeds, kernels, dried
467 mg Black walnuts, dried
420 mg Sunflower seeds, dry roasted
417 mg Pumpkin/Squash seeds, unhulled, roasted
370 mg Flaxseed
300 mg Hickory nuts, dried
291 mg Peanuts, dry roasted
284 mg Safflower seeds, kernels, dried
259 mg Pinenuts, dried (1 oz is about 167 kernels)
236 mg Walnuts, English, dried
221 mg Hazelnuts, dried or roasted
63 mg Chestnuts, European, roasted
183 mg Pecans, dried
165 mg Chestnuts, Chinese, dried
155 mg Almonds, dried or roasted (1 oz is about 22 whole almonds)
146 mg Beech nuts
136 mg Acorns, dried
133 mg Gingko nuts, dried
108 mg Chestnuts, Chinese, roasted
101 mg Chestnuts, Chinese, raw
70 mg Chestnuts, European, boiled
48 mg Gingko nuts, raw
38 mg Chestnuts, raw, peeled

56 Beans and Lentils Highest in Met​

Deleted
534 mg Soybeans, dry roasted
475 mg Soybeans, dry roasted (no idea why they gave same label twice or why different amounts)
224 mg Soybeans, Edama, boiled
150 mg Soybeans, green, boiled
130 to 150 mg many typed of beans, boiled (large white, kidney, cranberry, pinto, black, pink, small white,
110 to 130 mg many types of beans, boiled (chickpeas, navy, fava,

32 Grains and Pasta Highest in Met​

Per 100 g
438 mg Wild rice, raw
428 mg Teff, raw
315 mg Teff, cooked
312 mg Oats, raw
309 mg Quinoa, raw
258 mg Spelt, raw
251 mg Kamut, raw
240 mg Barley, hulled
230 mg Wheat, hard red spring
226 mg Amaranth, raw
221 mg Millet, raw
204 mg Triticale, raw
201 mg Wheat, hard red winter
195 mg Corn, yellow or white
190 mg Barley, pearled
174 mg Wheat, soft red winter
172 mg Buckwheat, raw
169 mg Sorghum grain
153 mg Rye grain
153 mg Buckwheat groats, roasted
125 mg Teff, cooked
119 mg Wild rice, cooked
116 mg Wheat, sprouted
97 mg Kamut, cooked
96 mg Quinois, cooked
70 mg Millet, cooked
44 mg Buckwheat, groats, roasted
43 mg Barley, pearled, cooked

35 American Indian Highest in Met​

Per 100 grams

1740 mg Whitefish, dried
1240 mg Smelt, dried
998 mg Elk, eye of round
905 mg Bison, eye of round
719 mg Salmon, coho, raw
645 mg Elk, eye of round, raw
597 mg Bison, top round, raw
560 mg Whitefish, roe

200 Fish Highest in Met​

Per 100 grams

1377 mg Salmon, coho, cooked with moist heat
1243 mg Pike, cooked with dry heat
1180 mg Salmon, coho, raw
971 mg Trout, cooked with dry heat
900 mg Walleye, cooked with dry heat
835 mg Bass, striped, raw or cooked with dry heat
782 mg Catfish, channel, cooked with dry heat
615 mg Whitefish, mixed species, cooked with dry heat
569 mg Smelt, rainbow, cooked with dry heat
544 mg Salmon, coho, raw
485 mg Pike, raw
444 mg Smelt, rainbow, raw
444 mg Bass, mixed species, raw or cooked with dry heat
399 mg Perch, mixed species, raw or cooked with dry heat
279 mg Sunfish, raw or cooked with dry heat

200 Meats Highest in Met​

100 g serving size
1055 mg Beef, chuck eye, lean only, raw
985 mg Beef, chuck eye, lean and fat, raw

Gave up this category for now - too much variability in serving sizes and not enough clarity of product

26 Spices and Herbs Highest in Met​

Per 100 g
586 mg Parsley, dried
502 mg Poppy seeds
483 mg Mustard seed, ground
310 mg Basil, dried
281 mg Spearmint, dried
200 mg Paprika
143 mg Dill seed
46 mg Spearmint, fresh

200 Vegetables Highest in Methionine​

Per 100 g
179 mg Mushrooms, shitaki, dried
142 mg Peppers, ancho, dried
138 mg Soybeans, sprouted
122 mg Tomatoes, dried
105 mg Lentils, sprouted

 

[saysfaa]

Side track... check soil sulphur levels
"Sulfur is an interesting plant nutrient in that it is negatively charged (most essential elements are positively charged). That means it is attracted ironically to calcium or magnesium, forming highly soluble gypsum or Epsom salts when either are in excess or the soil is unbalanced. Once bonded , the calcium sulfate or magnesium sulfate leaches easily. We used to be well supplied with sulfur in the northeast, in the good-old-days of acid rain, but once that was cleaned up, a lot of our souls are deficient." Source of quote (random to me website).

Back to the puzzle piece of ingredients to supply enough Met... Same website allows 0.27 lbs feed per chicken...(I hate math), 4 lbs per ton is 4 per 2000 is 2 per 1000 is 0.2 per 100 is .02 per 10 is 0.002 per 1 is 0.00025 per quarter pound.

0.00025 pounds is 114 mg

So target is 114 mg of Met per chicken per day. - check that the amounts are consistent with other sources of the amount needed-.

And check for acceptable range from target. There is such a thing as Met toxicity in people, at least. It seems it shouldn't be a problem because so much of the discussions are about the struggle to get enough. But if I grow my own, cost and availability are likely to be atypical.

Hm, if 728 is the rdi for people, 114 is really high for how much smaller chickens are. Better try again to get an rdi for chickens.

Ah, it should be 2 pds per ton. But that is the limit allowed for synthetic Met without losing organic label. Still looks high.

 

[Sally PB]

Following! How did I miss this thread?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Side track... check soil sulphur levels
"Sulfur is an interesting plant nutrient in that it is negatively charged (most essential elements are positively charged). That means it is attracted ironically to calcium or magnesium, forming highly soluble gypsum or Epsom salts when either are in excess or the soil is unbalanced. Once bonded , the calcium sulfate or magnesium sulfate leaches easily. We used to be well supplied with sulfur in the northeast, in the good-old-days of acid rain, but once that was cleaned up, a lot of our souls are deficient." Source of quote (random to me website).

Back to the puzzle piece of ingredients to supply enough Met... Same website allows 0.27 lbs feed per chicken...(I hate math), 4 lbs per ton is 4 per 2000 is 2 per 1000 is 0.2 per 100 is .02 per 10 is 0.002 per 1 is 0.00025 per quarter pound.

0.00025 pounds is 114 mg

So target is 114 mg of Met per chicken per day. - check that the amounts are consistent with other sources of the amount needed-.

And check for acceptable range from target. There is such a thing as Met toxicity in people, at least. It seems it shouldn't be a problem because so much of the discussions are about the struggle to get enough. But if I grow my own, cost and availability are likely to be atypical.

Hm, if 728 is the rdi for people, 114 is really high for how much smaller chickens are. Better try again to get an rdi for chickens.

Ah, it should be 2 pds per ton. But that is the limit allowed for synthetic Met without losing organic label. Still looks high.

Too much rounding, not enough significant digits. We know Met recommends to be (depending on source, and excluding the very young and "meaties") to be between .3% and .4% of total feed composition. That's what, 3-4 mg/g? If 1/4lb is 113.4 g, your target is 400mg. of Met (.35%) per quarter pound of feed.

 

[saysfaa]

Following! How did I miss this thread?

Maybe because it is months old? Its pretty sure to be an ongoing project.

Join in if you come across a piece of the puzzle.