I need help to start a chicken farm / ministry

[ChickenCanoe]

Quote:

Hi KikisGirls,

Since the land that we have is bare land, I have the same problem with settling the Christians there. My thought is to temporarily house the people in tents. I have a Pakistani friend whose ministry is for Muslims, and she houses them in tents. I thought I would do the same for Christians in the colony until we can build them brick apartments (something they never dreamed of having). Eventually I want start a SIPS manufacturing business there, and their home will be totally insulated by the foam structure.

So, I thought for now, just like the people, we should set up tents for them to protect the from the sun. They would have an outdoor fenced area.

They will not be kept in the huge commercial buildings I see in the state and in Mexico. Each family, two or three families will be in charge of at least 100 chickens, whatever they are capable of managing. To rescue the Christians kept in just the slavery of the brick kilns, we are talking about hundreds of thousands of people. So the less we distribute our our production (chickens), the more families will be helped.

Our goal is not to keep these families at a low level, but to bring them into the system, and elevate them to "better" things in their lives. When I lived in LA, I dealt with a lot of street people and took time to learn about them, thus learned about people. Some people quite productive jobs to live on the street an have a greater sense of freedom for life's stress. So I anticipate many of these humble, simple people will enjoy the quiet life of having a secure home and raising their chickens. Others can study or train and move up that ladder.

As for the predators, in Pak, the worst predators are human, so the few predatory animals will be kept out with fences and overhead wires to discourage raptors, while the human predators will be kept out with an economically empowered community that will understand their rights (which Pakistan does grant to minorities, Christians), and coupled with that, they will have access to legal help we will provide.

That you very much for the questions. If you have and advice to give as for this kind of production facility, I would certainly appreciate it. Actually, another concern of mine is the conditions in which the chickens must live. My mom, dad, and kids loved to watch and feed the chickens (not so much to collect their eggs, but yes, to eat them), so I would like to have the chickens enjoy their lives as much as possible. When God sent Jonah to keep Ninevah from being destroyed, he also mentioned the great number of animal life that would be destroyed with them. So other may be tree huggers, maybe I may be a chicken hugger (yuck). When I got my baby chickens, I would gather them on my lap, but grown chickens ... ?

Bless you, my friend.

It isn't just Christians that are suppressed minorities. There are also the Pashtuns, Baluchis, and Shi'a Muslims that are very likely to be living on $1 a day.

Your plan is an admirable goal. How familiar are you with the social structure there?
Given the complex social structure, I'm just curious if you expect any pushback from the Muhajir, Punjabis, Sunnis or even from tribal/village leaders like maliks?
I don't know if it is still the case but back about 10 or 15 years ago when environmentalists started looking at the global ecological footprint of different nations, Pakistan had the smallest footprint of any country. It would be great if as you do this project, you could lift these people's economic status while maintaining that small footprint.

I found this to be a very informative site http://uwf.edu/atcdev/pakistan/web/Society/IndexSociety.html
Especially the topics of 'Wealth and Poverty', 'Class Differences' and 'Tribal Governance'.

When people tell me there aren't predatory animals where they live, I quote that line in the 'Field of Dreams' movie. "If you build it, they will come."
Dependent upon in what part of Pakistan your property is located, you can have all sorts of predators. Pakistan has several species of wild cats including the Pallas, Sand, Fishing cat and Snow Leopard.
Red Fox, Ruppell's Fox, Striped Hyena, Brown and Black bears will all wreak havoc. Some of those can be thwarted with fences, some cannot.
There are also owls that are quite adept at getting into small openings.
Even if none of those things are around your property, dogs are a big problem.

Another mistake people make when they do have a predator issue is to think if they took one out, they got it. There is no it when it comes to predators. It is 'them'. There are always multiples except perhaps in the case of the bears I mentioned and snow leopards. The rest have brothers, sisters, parents, children, cousins, aunts, uncles, grandchildren, et. al. and all in the same area.

I have no idea where to get chickens. I know in the states, I can get them for $2.00 USD, but they are expensive in Pak. My other concern was that when I traveled in Mexico, all the chickens I saw were very small. My chickens from the coop were always huge. I do need to find the right source. I also need to have one of my helpers there tell me about their chickens.

When we start our ponds, I would think that somehow the "neutered" (what do you call them) Tilapia will be somehow available or importable there.

I have so many question, and so few answers. But the answers will come at some point.

The size of chickens is a function of the breed, not how or where they are raised.
Seramas can be as small as 9 ounces while Jersey Giants, Brahmas and a few others can be 10 pounds or more.

Hmmm, that would be too bad. I will keep on checking. I wondered if if would be possible. I will try to find out what breeds they have there.

Thank you.

That's the reason I suggested sourcing eggs here and incubating them there.

Asils are from Pakistan but don't lay well. You could look into sourcing some of the breed in the following link. Then you wouldn't have the hassle of the import/export process and the University would be a good resource for you.
http://www.web.pk/2014/new-breed-of-hens-introduced-in-pakistan/

 

[CuzChickens]

Welcome to Backyard Chickens! Thanks for joining, I'm sure you'll love it here!

~Cuz

 

[redsoxs]

Greetings from Kansas and

! Pleased you joined our community!

 

[drumstick diva]

 

[Mystic7]

Good luck with all your plans!

Thank you, NFC. I appreciate it when people notice and wish us well.

Yesterday one of my helpers in Pakistan sent a message that in the past 10 days 15 bombs were set off in Pak. Yes, I appreciate your concern for them and the work.

Our Father bless you.

 

[Mystic7]

Hi Chicken Canoe, your knowledge is amazing, and I deeply appreciate you feed back.

Quote:
It isn't just Christians that are suppressed minorities. There are also the Pashtuns, Baluchis, and Shi'a Muslims that are very likely to be living on $1 a day.

Yes, there are a variety of minorities, and we offer our services to all. That being said, we also offer help to the greatest majority group, the suffering.However, given the words of Christ, we are compelled to help our brothers and sisters. Then again, following a parable of Christ, the Samaritan who helped the wounded man was his neighbor, whom we are compelled to love, per the Words of Christ, and in loving him, we are to help him. A female pastor working with us directs her attention to homeless Muslims, providing them with housing, food, education,and medical aid.

Your plan is an admirable goal. How familiar are you with the social structure there?
Given the complex social structure, I'm just curious if you expect any pushback from the Muhajir, Punjabis, Sunnis or even from tribal/village leaders like maliks?
I don't know if it is still the case but back about 10 or 15 years ago when environmentalists started looking at the global ecological footprint of different nations, Pakistan had the smallest footprint of any country. It would be great if as you do this project, you could lift these people's economic status while maintaining that small footprint.

Obviously you know more about Pakistan than I do. All those whom I support (ie those helping me) in this work are indigenous and resident Pakistanis (except a Paki asylum seeker in Bangkok). In spite of that, our intention is to maintain a very low profile in Pak : house churches, mom & pop grocery stores, generally very small mini farms, small virtual satellite schools via computer/net with a local assistant. Further, as they develop, we instruct then to help any other non-violent persons in there journey through life, not just to diminish potential jealousy, but for the simple fact it is the right and loving thing to do. As Tolstoi truly said - Where Love is, God is". Nevertheless we definitely anticipate strong opposition at times being the nature of working there.

Regarding green issues, as I stated before, arm goal is to maintain a large workforce to production ratio, not just benefit as many people as possible, but to be sensitive to the environment. My primary personal interest is in helping them to develop a true spiritual strength, with an equivalent goal to empower them economically, therefore socially and politically.

Given my universally limited knowledge in all areas, I am looking for others to properly help us in bringing these primary goals into reality.


I found this to be a very informative site http://uwf.edu/atcdev/pakistan/web/Society/IndexSociety.html
Especially the topics of 'Wealth and Poverty', 'Class Differences' and 'Tribal Governance'.

I appreciate your supplying that link. I will forward to my helpers to incorporate an SOP guidebook we need to follow. Bless you for that.


When people tell me there aren't predatory animals where they live, I quote that line in the 'Field of Dreams' movie. "If you build it, they will come."
Dependent upon in what part of Pakistan your property is located, you can have all sorts of predators. Pakistan has several species of wild cats including the Pallas, Sand, Fishing cat and Snow Leopard. Red Fox, Ruppell's Fox, Striped Hyena, Brown and Black bears will all wreak havoc. Some of those can be thwarted with fences, some cannot.
There are also owls that are quite adept at getting into small openings.
Even if none of those things are around your property, dogs are a big problem.

Again, you show your superior knowledge. After I made my post about that, I reflected on the fact that there will be cats and dogs, beyond the avian predators I mentioned. So far, by policy, we are only establishing our areas of work in small villages (small farms and colonies) where Muslim hostility is minimal or in Christian neighborhoods in larger cities. It is a commonly accepted fact that Christians in Pak are very generally a benevolent and accepting of all others (whether due to intimidation, condition, or a divine nature).

You may like this touching little video of a Muslim man crying on Iraqi TV over the suffering of Christians in his country.

As i see their suffering, I cry for them as well. After all, beyond our beliefs,we are human and wotyhiyof compassion.

Another mistake people make when they do have a predator issue is to think if they took one out, they got it. There is no it when it comes to predators. It is 'them'. There are always multiples except perhaps in the case of the bears I mentioned and snow leopards. The rest have brothers, sisters, parents, children, cousins, aunts, uncles, grandchildren, et. al. and all in the same area.

I hope we can keep the interaction minimal, so even the naturally feral predators are not molested.


The size of chickens is a function of the breed, not how or where they are raised.
Seramas can be as small as 9 ounces while Jersey Giants, Brahmas and a few others can be 10 pounds or more.

While you are correct about the above, I would contend a bit that size, production, reproduction, and mortality rates in caring for a domestic (farm) animal can be a major factor. Bringing bond slaves (sex, maids, farm, etc slaves) into a new occupation can be a challenging transition. And we need the expertise as found on this site, ie we need people like you.


That's the reason I suggested sourcing eggs here and incubating them there. Asils are from Pakistan but don't lay well. You could look into sourcing some of the breed in the following link. Then you wouldn't have the hassle of the import/export process and the University would be a good resource for you.
http://www.web.pk/2014/new-breed-of-hens-introduced-in-pakistan/

I completely agree with you. I strongly hope that we will be able to find appropriate breeds that are equivalent to those in the US and elsewhere. I hope there is a high degree of research regarding natural breeding of domesticated animals into those most appropriate for the various conditions found throughout the world.

Again, I deeply appreciate your suggestions. In under developed countries, especially where persecution commonly exists, providing the greatest advantages possible to those who are suffering, it is not just a matter of convenience or advantage, but it is very, very often of life and death.

I am so thankful for those who care enough to give their advice. Thank you. CC

Someday I hope a manual will be compiled for chicken farming. It probably already exists.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Hi Chicken Canoe, your knowledge is amazing, and I deeply appreciate you feed back.
...
Yes, there are a variety of minorities, and we offer our services to all. That being said, we also offer help to the greatest majority group, the suffering.However, given the words of Christ, we are compelled to help our brothers and sisters. Then again, following a parable of Christ, the Samaritan who helped the wounded man was his neighbor, whom we are compelled to love, per the Words of Christ, and in loving him, we are to help him. A female pastor working with us directs her attention to homeless Muslims, providing them with housing, food, education,and medical aid.
...

Obviously you know more about Pakistan than I do. All those whom I support (ie those helping me) in this work are indigenous and resident Pakistanis (except a Paki asylum seeker in Bangkok). In spite of that, our intention is to maintain a very low profile in Pak : house churches, mom & pop grocery stores, generally very small mini farms, small virtual satellite schools via computer/net with a local assistant. Further, as they develop, we instruct then to help any other non-violent persons in there journey through life, not just to diminish potential jealousy, but for the simple fact it is the right and loving thing to do. As Tolstoi truly said - Where Love is, God is". Nevertheless we definitely anticipate strong opposition at times being the nature of working there.
I majored in international politics and I've traveled extensively.
Be safe out there.
Regarding green issues, as I stated before, arm goal is to maintain a large workforce to production ratio, not just benefit as many people as possible, but to be sensitive to the environment. My primary personal interest is in helping them to develop a true spiritual strength, with an equivalent goal to empower them economically, therefore socially and politically.

Given my universally limited knowledge in all areas, I am looking for others to properly help us in bringing these primary goals into reality.

...

I appreciate your supplying that link. I will forward to my helpers to incorporate an SOP guidebook we need to follow. Bless you for that.

...

Again, you show your superior knowledge. After I made my post about that, I reflected on the fact that there will be cats and dogs, beyond the avian predators I mentioned. So far, by policy, we are only establishing our areas of work in small villages (small farms and colonies) where Muslim hostility is minimal or in Christian neighborhoods in larger cities. It is a commonly accepted fact that Christians in Pak are very generally a benevolent and accepting of all others (whether due to intimidation, condition, or a divine nature).

The cats I was referring to are wild cats, larger than domestic feral cats.

You may like this touching little video of a Muslim man crying on Iraqi TV over the suffering of Christians in his country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjUeh6li_NU As i see their suffering, I cry for them as well. After all, beyond our beliefs,we are human and wotyhiyof compassion.
...

I hope we can keep the interaction minimal, so even the naturally feral predators are not molested.
...

While you are correct about the above, I would contend a bit that size, production, reproduction, and mortality rates in caring for a domestic (farm) animal can be a major factor. Bringing bond slaves (sex, maids, farm, etc slaves) into a new occupation can be a challenging transition. And we need the expertise as found on this site, ie we need people like you.

...

I completely agree with you. I strongly hope that we will be able to find appropriate breeds that are equivalent to those in the US and elsewhere. I hope there is a high degree of research regarding natural breeding of domesticated animals into those most appropriate for the various conditions found throughout the world.

I started thinking about my suggestion of an egg incubator and wondered if your property would have reliable electricity.
Natural hatching with a mother hen has advantages and disadvantages. She does all the work and needs no electricity. The disadvantages are that you can't make a hen go broody. She either wants to or not. Also, a broody hen won't be producing eggs for at least 2 months while she's raising a family.

Here's a link regarding making the best of incubating shipped eggs.
http://hubpages.com/animals/Chicken-Incubators-and-getting-the-most-chicks-from-your-hatching-eggs

Again, I deeply appreciate your suggestions. In under developed countries, especially where persecution commonly exists, providing the greatest advantages possible to those who are suffering, it is not just a matter of convenience or advantage, but it is very, very often of life and death.

I am so thankful for those who care enough to give their advice. Thank you. CC

Someday I hope a manual will be compiled for chicken farming. It probably already exists.

I wrote one that I distribute at my college chicken classes. If you PM me, I'll mail you a copy.

Rather than buying an incubator here and shipping it over, your best bet would be to get one from China. It will be cheaper and easier to ship.
This one is for 1000 eggs.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/incubator-humidifier-incubator-for-1000-eggs_60347710745.html
This one holds 96 eggs.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Cheapest-Full-Automatic-Fan-Incubator-YZ_60419078479.html

 

[Mystic7]

Rather than buying an incubator here and shipping it over, your best bet would be to get one from China. It will be cheaper and easier to ship.
This one is for 1000 eggs.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/incubator-humidifier-incubator-for-1000-eggs_60347710745.html
This one holds 96 eggs.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Cheapest-Full-Automatic-Fan-Incubator-YZ_60419078479.html

As I reread my posts I see I need to pay more attention to edit the spelling.

You brought up the issue of the availability of electricity. Even in the large cities, eg Multan, the rotate through the cities having electricity off for 5 hours a day. We don't discuss that much, because they assume it as normal, so I am uncertain as to whether is it planned, but I know electricity often goes off periodically for short periods.We will be providing generators (probably LP powered) to our small colonies. So, if LP gas powered incubators are available I am thinking that would be better practically, also environmentally better.

Pakistan shares a border (disputed) with China, but I think they would ship need to ship it by freighter, since the distance to manufacturing centers would be too far. Their border with India may make products made in south central India more practical. If there are no LP incubators, we may be able to devise a model for production.

This morning (Sunday), three of my helpers were interviewing people and taking pictures in a Christian sector of Karachi. Although my goal was to resettle people on agricultural colonies, there are so many buildings in ruins and most homes are lacking roofs, I am thinking some type of chicken - egg production / vertical farming needs to be done in the urban areas.

It is difficult to do this work, because every day I am told of dying, starving, homeless widows, children, and the disabled. A helper sends me live pictures over Whatsapp, and I see people milling around in the streets, kids lingering all around, the sick on their beds in houses open to the sky, and I wonder how can I really change this. It would be easier to turn my head, but I can't. And these people I work with are naturally vulnerable by nature of the social / cultural structure of the region. People constantly ask for help I can not possibly give. We attend million dollar churches, while they meet in bombed churches without ceilings or roofs. Today Western Union stopped allowing me to send them money, because I have sent too many times. I do this on my own. Now what? Sorry, just frustrated. Ugghh

I will take up your offer of the manual you have written. When you let me know the cost, I will send it. Thank you for the thought you are putting into my little project of saving Pakistan - and the World. I truly thank you and ask that my Father bless you in such a way that you see His goodness and reality.

 

[whoop whoop]

Welcome to BYC - I wish you well with your project. It might be an idea to contact The Agricultural University in Faisalabad, they seem to be doing research on chickens that come from Pakistan, rather than importing from another country.

 

[shortgrass]

As I reread my posts I see I need to pay more attention to edit the spelling.

You brought up the issue of the availability of electricity. Even in the large cities, eg Multan, the rotate through the cities having electricity off for 5 hours a day. We don't discuss that much, because they assume it as normal, so I am uncertain as to whether is it planned, but I know electricity often goes off periodically for short periods.We will be providing generators (probably LP powered) to our small colonies. So, if LP gas powered incubators are available I am thinking that would be better practically, also environmentally better.

Pakistan shares a border (disputed) with China, but I think they would ship need to ship it by freighter, since the distance to manufacturing centers would be too far. Their border with India may make products made in south central India more practical. If there are no LP incubators, we may be able to devise a model for production.

This morning (Sunday), three of my helpers were interviewing people and taking pictures in a Christian sector of Karachi. Although my goal was to resettle people on agricultural colonies, there are so many buildings in ruins and most homes are lacking roofs, I am thinking some type of chicken - egg production / vertical farming needs to be done in the urban areas.

It is difficult to do this work, because every day I am told of dying, starving, homeless widows, children, and the disabled. A helper sends me live pictures over Whatsapp, and I see people milling around in the streets, kids lingering all around, the sick on their beds in houses open to the sky, and I wonder how can I really change this. It would be easier to turn my head, but I can't. And these people I work with are naturally vulnerable by nature of the social / cultural structure of the region. People constantly ask for help I can not possibly give. We attend million dollar churches, while they meet in bombed churches without ceilings or roofs. Today Western Union stopped allowing me to send them money, because I have sent too many times. I do this on my own. Now what? Sorry, just frustrated. Ugghh

I will take up your offer of the manual you have written. When you let me know the cost, I will send it. Thank you for the thought you are putting into my little project of saving Pakistan - and the World. I truly thank you and ask that my Father bless you in such a way that you see His goodness and reality.

A very huge undertaking! I would like to help in any way I can... My resources will be limited by my lack of knowledge on the missionary front so far, but I'm ready and willing to learn!


One thing I just thought of that might help, with the electrical problem... It will create other problems though. Have you considered broody breeds? It's not near as fast or convenient as a big incubator, but it eliminates the need for constant electricity.


But hmmm, to.incubate 1000 eggs you'd need approximately 100 hens


It was a small thought lol