I need help with my girls!

[MaeX5]

Hello

I'm am quite new at keeping chickens and am in need of some advice. We got 7 hens from a large farm that had a big number of chickens and wanted to reduce the numbers. I have no idea of their ages or breeds, although the majority are look young. The lady whom we got them from said they probably wouldn't lay for awhile after the stress of the move.

Well, I think two laid for a month or so and now they have stopped altogether. At the farm they were at they free ranged 24/7, we cant have that in our area but we do have a decent amount of land that they roam most of the day, at night I lock them up at and let them out mid morning.

I noticed their combs becoming pale and a few extra feathers laying around so I thought they must have been molting and maybe this is why the ones who had been laying stopped... Then after some googling I thought maybe it could be lice/mites or worms so they are wormed and dusted for lice/mites regularly.

I got them the best grain and layer pellets, although I don't give them much of those. They get a lot scraps, I grow them their own greens like zucchini and cucumber, plus they love strawberries!

We have had them about 6 months, with no improvement to the colour of their combs, they get fed a lot but seem slightly underweight (I can feel the breast bone I think) despite the constant feeding. I highly doubt they have any type of parasite and after this amount of time surely they would be over the stress of the move or now having to be locked up?

So I guess my question is what else can I do to encourage eggs? Or at the very least what could make them gain some more weight/be healthier?

Sorry for the essay but I am at a loss now as to what has caused their pale combs that once were so vibrant and red!

Thanks

Amy.

 

[chooks4life]

I noticed their combs becoming pale and a few extra feathers laying around so I thought they must have been molting and maybe this is why the ones who had been laying stopped... Then after some googling I thought maybe it could be lice/mites or worms so they are wormed and dusted for lice/mites regularly.

How regularly? On a healthy diet they don't need chemical wormers or delousers. There are natural alternatives that work without harming the animal as well, and if you've only had them 6 months and you're deworming them and dusting them regularly with chemicals, that could be the cause of their paleness.

I got them the best grain and layer pellets, although I don't give them much of those. They get a lot scraps, I grow them their own greens like zucchini and cucumber, plus they love strawberries!

Zucchini and cucumbers are fine in moderation but I wouldn't consider them sufficient 'greens' at all and certainly not a large part of a balanced diet. Grass is amazingly beneficial by itself and the free ranging they were used to would have been supplying them with a lot of grass, from which they probably got their red combs, in large part.

Also, how balanced is their diet? If you're not giving them enough of a balanced diet they will be running short on necessary nutrients; some people will tell you all they need is some grass and scraps, but it's not true. Forcing an animal to subsist on a malnutritious diet can appear to work for even years at a time because malnutrition usually takes a very long time to kill, so many people who don't feed their animals right are unaware that they are slowly killing them because it can take so long. When the animals do die, they think it was something else that did it, because they appeared to cope fine on the diet they were on, so surely that cannot have been the issue, they think.

We have had them about 6 months, with no improvement to the colour of their combs, they get fed a lot but seem slightly underweight (I can feel the breast bone I think) despite the constant feeding. I highly doubt they have any type of parasite and after this amount of time surely they would be over the stress of the move or now having to be locked up?

They're long over the stress of the move, whatever is affecting them now is environmental and dietary in all likelihood.

So I guess my question is what else can I do to encourage eggs? Or at the very least what could make them gain some more weight/be healthier?

A balanced diet would encourage eggs and weight gain. Kelp powder or granules are a great addition to the diet to supply them with vitamins and minerals and trace elements, and will get even non-layers back into lay. I'd research a balanced diet for poultry to get an idea of what they need to be eating regularly. Winging it can work in the short term but malnutrition takes a long time to kill so just because they don't die outright doesn't mean they're not dying by inches, so to speak. Judging by the sound of it, they're missing out on something very important to a large extent, and death may occur sooner rather than later.

It's also possible they've become overrun by some harmful bacteria or fungi or similar that exists in large amounts in your area. They may be accessing a toxin or something may be leaching into their water. They may be consuming poisoned insects, often a serious issue in suburbia with poultry.

Fresh raw garlic is beneficial for them in many ways, being high in sulfur and many natural and powerful antibiotics, antibacterials, antimicrobials, antifungal and antiviral compounds. For red crests as well as many other benefits unpasteurized apple cider vinegar added to one water source will help. Kelp's another thing that will redden their crests/faces too.

Sorry for the essay but I am at a loss now as to what has caused their pale combs that once were so vibrant and red!

Far better to ask before they die than to ask after they die. We're all learners and a lot of apparently knowledgeable people can beset the new poultry owner with bad advice offered with good intentions. The more information you provide whenever asking a question on this site, the more people can help. Sometimes it's the insignificant detail that is the important clue as to what's going on. Wish you the best with your flock.

 

[Ridgerunner]

What chickens need is a balanced diet of the nutrients they need. Layer chicken feed contains a balance of all they need. It’s formulated to do that and should be about 90% of their diet.

If you have good quality forage, different grasses and weeds, grass and weed seeds, decaying vegetative matter like leaves in a woodland, and all sorts of creepy crawlies they can do quite well on that, but most back yards don’t contain the variety of forage they need. Still, them being able to forage is good, even if it is just manicured lawn. For thousands of years chickens did quite well and laid a lot of eggs on small farms where they were not fed anything during the good weather months, but they had all kinds of variety in their forage. Chickens are not a modern invention. I find the best way for me is to not try to micromanage their diet but keep it as simple and basic as I can.

Scraps are also good for them. It gives some variety they don’t get from just the Layer feed, but don’t overdo it. Scraps, other grains, or other greens you are feeding them should be no more than 10% of their diet or you will upset that “balanced” benefit they get from the Layer. If they can clean it up in 15 to 20 minutes, you are not overdoing it when you feed them the scraps, grains, and such. Think of it as those treats are like candy in that they may overdo it on that stuff at the expense of eating the more nutritious Layer. Even nutritious stuff is not really good for them if they overindulge on it.

It sounds like they did molt when you first got them. Some can be over the molt in a couple of months but some can go 4 to 5 months. That’s genetic and based on how fast they lose their feathers when they molt. Some are slow molters and some are fast. I also worry about you overmedicating them. I never medicate unless I see an obvious need. You can find a vet and take in a stool sample for them to verify if you have a worm problem or not. Not all worming medications work for all different types of worms. If they have mites or lice you can see them and the eggs.

I don’t know where you are located Amy, but if it is in the northern hemisphere, you might start seeing some eggs soon. Some hens will lay in the winter after they finish the molt but a more natural instinct is to stop laying during the winter when food is scarce and use that time to molt and replenish their body. It’s the nights getting shorter that triggers their urge to lay in the spring. Older hens do lay less but even they should lay a few eggs. But they are really not going to lay well at all if they are not getting a fairly balanced diet. They need a certain amount of fat before they lay too. They don’t need to be fat obese hens that can barely waddle around, but they need some reserves of fat to lay. That’s so they can live off the fat if they happen to go broody. It’s one of nature’s safeguards.

There are some diseases that can cause them to stop laying, but if that were the case, you should be seeing other serious symptoms, not just them not laying. I don’t think that is your problem.

If you had not mentioned the pale combs and underweight bodies, I’d suggest they may be hiding nests from you since the roam, or that something may be getting the eggs. But since they are underweight and with pale combs and you leave them locked in until mid-morning, I don’t think that is your problem.

It’s possible they have some type of worm that your wormer didn’t get, so taking a fecal sample to a vet for a check might be a good idea. At least you would know what type of worm you are dealing with and can get the right medication. It’s hard to diagnose these things over the internet, but I suggest you cut back on the ”treats” and rely more on the Layer feed for a while and see if that helps.

Good luck with it.

 

[MaeX5]

Thank you both chooks4life and ridgerunner, both your replies were extremely helpful..

I had been dusting with the lice powder weekly as per the instructions on the bottle but have now stopped, they had been wormed a quite a few times but I have googled natural approaches to that and will use those methods in the future I was definitely over medicating, poor girls!!!!

We have just had a very long dry hot summer (southern hemisphere) and even though I thought they had a sufficient area to free range, around 1 acre, I now realise that there hasn't been any green lush grass for them and my greens (not just zucchini and cucumber, they are just ones I grow among others) haven't been enough, even in what I thought were large quantities. You were also correct in saying people had told me they can survive on table scraps and free ranging alone, hence why I didn't feed them much in the way of grain/pellets, I now realise that advice wasn't the best, especially with the hot summer we have had.

So for the last 4 days I have made them a warm protein mash, adding kelp powder (great tip thanks, I thought Id have trouble finding that but we had it at the local farm and feed store) with plenty of layer pellets and grain and table scraps as a treat as suggested (making up about 10% of the diet now). I will continue making them the mash until I'm happy they no longer require it.

I am very pleased to say even in the short time since your advice they are looking so much better!! Their combs are starting to redden already, a huge difference compared to their pale ones only days ago and their eyes seem clearer and less dull. And not sure if the new diet is the reason but they are not longer sleeping in the nesting boxes! I had been going out every night to move them onto their perches to roost so they didn't dirty the nesting boxes.... Or maybe its just they have finally caught on where they should sleep lol.

I am not concerned if they never lay and egg (although it would be nice), I love my girls and as long as they are healthy happy chickens is all that matters! So I am very thankful for you advice. Awful to think it was their diet and my overmedicating causing them the problems but I thought I was doing the right thing for them, lucky for me I found this forum!

Kind regards

Amy

 

[chooks4life]

Great to hear, and good on you! Thanks for the update, it's always helpful to know how things work out, both to those who try to help and those with similar problems looking for advice.

About kelp: in very large and sustained overdoses over many months it can overdose them in some nutrients and that can be fatal just like underdosing them in nutrients, but generally overdosing kills sooner than underdosing. I wouldn't give them more than a pinch or two per bird per day. Short term overdose won't hurt them, you could do it for months without harming them, but of course best not to.

Best wishes with your flock.