I think I gave my bird a heart attack!

[WishboneDawn]

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Flip is a sudden heart attack, nicknamed that from the way they suddenly flip and land on their backs. If you read NG's post and then others raising them for home, you'll see many feeding an extra week or more on higher protein feed, looking to process a larger bird, and the risk of heart attacks or leg problems may increase a bit.

I wonder if though if a lot of preventable deaths get attributed to flip deaths and that helps fuel the birds' reputation as more fragile?

We had 26 and lost 2 (so far - another week and a half 'till processing). One was undersized and had issues from the start. The other died sudden;y on my husband one morning. One moment it was exiting the pen (we free range them most days) and the next it was on the ground dead. We were ready to call it a flip death until we though more about it. It could also have been trampled in the morning rush to get food. The death might have been our fault and totally preventable. Certainly there were no signs like a purple comb on this hen. I wonder how often deaths like that might occur but people label it a flip and look no further at their own practices?

 

[WishboneDawn]

Double post. Ugh.

 

[chookmama]

(Disclaimer, I'm new to raising chickens. Got layers a couple of months ago: Barred Rock, Blue Cochin, an Isa Brown who is an egg-laying machine!, a pullet Americauna and a young (under a year) Americauna roo. Received 51 chicks from Stromberg last Friday: 26 Buff Orpingtons and 25 Silver Laced Wyandottes. All are currently active and seemingly healthy.)

I understand about trampling deaths and pile-ups, but am surprised that this might be an issue with only 24 chickens. Can anyone advise if my Wyandottes and Orpingtons are likely to have that problem? Or is this part of the package with Cornish X? I chose to go with traditional breeds this time around because I don't care for the flavor or texture of Cornish Cross (though small farm grown seem better.) Most critically, I chose not to because I'm new, and figured the hardier bird was a more forgiving choice for me as I'm learning to manage the process. (Plus I'll be keeping the hens, harvesting the roos).

Would appreciate experience of others here as I prepare my next-size brooder and field pens. (They're currently on deep litter in a 5' diameter kiddie pool w/ built-up sides in my mudroom.)

 

[Neil Grassbaugh]

Piling with 25 birds should not be a problem no matter what their breeding.

Now when you have 25,000 or so in a building piling can be a problem no matter what their breeding.

 

[Neil Grassbaugh]

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[Tracydr]

How are they oxygen deprived in the incubators or delivery trucks? And how does this occur more than with other hatchery breeds? Sorry to drill you on this but I just have never heard it and I find it very interesting. Do you know of any articles relating to this? Believe me, I'd love to read about this disorder and what the causes are. Especially given my medical and animal science background.

I'm sorry you don't have the formulas available. I'd just love to get away fom this darn Purina flock raiser, I really don't think it's entirely adequate but I don't feel like I've found a decent formula to substitute, either. I need to see if I can purchas an advanced poultry science textbook, I guess and see if that would provide some formulas. My undergrad Feeds and Feeding really didn't go into poultry nutrition in any detail, although I can certainly do a Pearson's Square, even after 26 years of not using this knowledge.

I'm always amazed at the hardiness of little creatures. Even my tomatoes amaze me at times. That you can take little chicks and send them through the postal service is utterly amazing to me, even if two or three are too weak to live when they arrive. ( in my experience, this happens more often with my tiny banty chicks, maybe less reserves?)

 

[Neil Grassbaugh]

How are they oxygen deprived in the incubators or delivery trucks?
Simply not enough air exchange. Lack of oxygen, to much CO2. Damages the cilla in the lungs which down the road causes less efficent oxygen exchane in the lungs. Now there is no doubt that in the past there was a genetic predisposition to ascities caused by stress endured in this circumstrance and that has been pretty much effectively bred out of the breeding flocks. There are other things that aggravate the onset of asities and in the industry we have found that a reasonable dark period each day also seems to lessen the problem. I don't think that light is the cause but rather the lack of a dark period which the physiology of these birds seems to require.
And how does this occur more than with other hatchery breeds? Sorry to drill you on this but I just have never heard it and I find it very interesting
Modern broiler chickens are a much higher performance animal that the old breeds. The broilers live on the edge as it is.

See this article- it explains in greater detail the many other cause/effect situations that agravate ascites-

http://www.canadianpoultry.ca/ascites.htm​

 

[Tracydr]

Thanks, Neil!