I want a good meat bird that can reproduce and forage...

[mike67909]

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Mike, do you mean buff Orpingtons? Buff is not a breed, just a color. Orpingtons are also available in black, or white. (some breeders are working on other colors, I don't know if any others are accepted by the APA yet)

There are other breeds that come in the buff color, too, there are buff Brahmas, buff Cornish, and others, those are the 2 that come to mind right away.

JoAnn, the Freedom Rangers are a nice option, I think, and from what I've been reading about them, I see no reason you couldn't keep some for breeding. If you do decide to cross a heritage breed with some, you might want to get a strain from a good breeder, and not use hatchery stock. The hatchery birds of so-called "heavy breeds" tend to be on the skinny side, not what you want to add to a meat strain.

I've had Brahmas, both buff and light, they're very nice, but slow growers. My light Brahma hens are great brooders and good moms. My best crosses to date have been with a standard dark Cornish. I only had hens, so the cross was bass-ackwards, with Cornish hen, X what-ever roos, but now I have a DC roo, to cross with various hens, and see what that produces.

I've also heard good things about red broilers and black broilers, they seem to reach butcher weight at about 12 weeks, and are active, healthy birds. Not as plump as the Cornish X's, but with a reasonably good sized breast, definitely bigger than most heritage breeds.

Yes that is what i meant sorry for the confusion.

I have hatchery stock for my dual purpose. I guess i have had pretty good luck my rocks and new hampshire reds, they have a pretty good growth rate. I have a a NHR that we call big red because she is just HUGE!

 

[Promiselandfarm]

WE had some buckeye roos last year and they turned out nicely just no hens to go with them. I think had we had enough hens we would have kept them on. Big nice guys but no one around here knew their worth

 

[Buster52]

There has been a back and forth discussion on several boards about the Freedom Rangers being hybrids, so I asked JM Hatchery to find out for sure. Here is their response, quoted from Hubbard...

"The Hubbard Red Bro broiler is a synthetic cross of four lines. The parent female has a “grandparent female” of line D and a “grandparent male” of line C. The parent male has a “grandparent female” of line B and a “grandparent male” of line A. When the parents you have are mated to produce the broiler it results in a specific combination of four lines that produces the most desirable broiler. If the broiler offspring are grown and mated as parents the offspring will “segregate” into a number of possible outcomes: 1) something resembling the Red Bro broiler 2) something resembling each of the four grandparent lines (A, B, C and D) and 3) all possible combinations of the four lines. It is not possible to predict the number of each offspring in each category. This is why we do not recommend retaining broilers and mating them as parents.

"There isn’t a common breed of domestic poultry that will give the same performance as the Red Bro for that segment of the market.

"The four grandparent lines have been selected for specific traits for many years and also for the ability to combine these traits in the most desirable way. The combination of four lines also allows for maximum hybrid vigor in the offspring. That is the objective of a primary breeder. We did not select lines that would not “breed true” just to sell more parents."

 

[chickboss]

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I will keep in touch with this board. I think I will likely keep a few of the one I have now so we could exchange hatching eggs in the future? It will be a few months before I would get any I have some New hampshire reds and white rocks that I will probably try crossing with the rangers also. I am not trying to create a new breed or anything but would like to experiment with it. My main goal is like that of everyone else tuning into this: a good meat bird that can reproduce, forages well, and has a nice size. My neighbors already think I am crazy I have like 60+ chickens on my 2.5 acres (2 layer/ breeding coops and 1 meat bird tractor) a few more wouldn't hurt anything.

I think by introducing an outside standard breed would help obtain offspring with more consistant genetic traits (minimizing the variability of ranger X ranger offspring sizes) while at the same time keeping some of the desired traits. I know there is another board on the meat bird index that someone is crossing X's with buckeyes I believe. I am also watching this to see how his turn out. I think the freedom rangers are more fit (than X's) to keep longer without having to restrict there diet as much since they forage better.

I agree, my life is a little too busy to be as exacting as you would have to be to create a new breed, but I would love to play around with different traits/birds, ect. I won't even have stock until summer, but I will keep the best out of what I get and would love to swap eggs with someone with the same goals. If anything, it will be a lot of fun and a great learning experience. We are up to 39 chickens, LOL, (and I won't even mention the ducks) my friends think we are nuts to, but my goodness, they are so easy, and if numbers get out of hand, you just pop em' in the freezer. In fact, I am thinking that some of the Australorp hens may end up in the freeze because I really only want to keep the larger girls that produce well. We have 10 acres. I like everything I have heard about the Buckeyes, so I may get a few of them to.

Buster52~ That is really good information, thank you.

Do you know what they ment by "synthetic cross" and by lines are they talking about breeds, or just lines from an existing breed? And if so, which breed/breeds are involved? Just curious, because I feel like I am missing the big picture a bit.

 

[SteveH]

Quote:
I will keep in touch with this board. I think I will likely keep a few of the one I have now so we could exchange hatching eggs in the future? It will be a few months before I would get any I have some New hampshire reds and white rocks that I will probably try crossing with the rangers also. I am not trying to create a new breed or anything but would like to experiment with it. My main goal is like that of everyone else tuning into this: a good meat bird that can reproduce, forages well, and has a nice size. My neighbors already think I am crazy I have like 60+ chickens on my 2.5 acres (2 layer/ breeding coops and 1 meat bird tractor) a few more wouldn't hurt anything.

I think by introducing an outside standard breed would help obtain offspring with more consistant genetic traits (minimizing the variability of ranger X ranger offspring sizes) while at the same time keeping some of the desired traits. I know there is another board on the meat bird index that someone is crossing X's with buckeyes I believe. I am also watching this to see how his turn out. I think the freedom rangers are more fit (than X's) to keep longer without having to restrict there diet as much since they forage better.

I agree, my life is a little too busy to be as exacting as you would have to be to create a new breed, but I would love to play around with different traits/birds, ect. I won't even have stock until summer, but I will keep the best out of what I get and would love to swap eggs with someone with the same goals. If anything, it will be a lot of fun and a great learning experience. We are up to 39 chickens, LOL, (and I won't even mention the ducks) my friends think we are nuts to, but my goodness, they are so easy, and if numbers get out of hand, you just pop em' in the freezer. In fact, I am thinking that some of the Australorp hens may end up in the freeze because I really only want to keep the larger girls that produce well. We have 10 acres. I like everything I have heard about the Buckeyes, so I may get a few of them to.

Buster52~ That is really good information, thank you.

Do you know what they ment by "synthetic cross" and by lines are they talking about breeds, or just lines from an existing breed? And if so, which breed/breeds are involved? Just curious, because I feel like I am missing the big picture a bit.

I'm not Buster , but the word " synthetic " has been used here in its litteral defination . Synthetic means the blending of diverse things that merge into one of different structure than those it was made from , but has become synonomous with " artificial " due to so many different natural things [ wool , drugs , leather , silk ] being replaced by artificials made from the synthetic blend of chemicals . All hybrid animals are a synthetic blend of other breeds or species because when combined they result in offspring with predictable changes from their parents ........ breeding hybrids [ if fertile ] to each other begins the process of breaking the blend down to its original ancestors .
ETA: Hybrid vegetables like tomatoes or sweetcorn were developed to get plants that produced better . You let them self-pollinate and you start to loose those qualities in the next plants raised from the seeds . When hybrid vegetables were introduced , many people refused to grow or eat them . Same applies to hybrid chickens . There are many pure varieties of plants and animals that have great qualities lacking in hybrids , and heirlooms should always be treasured IMO . On the other hand , I'll take Illini Xtra Sweet over Golden Bantam sweetcorn whether its to grow or eat

 

[chickboss]

So... I am thinking then that any new breed in the process of being developed would go through a period of having hybrids that have the potential, when bred to one another, of losing those traits for which it is being selected for. What then, is the stablizing factor that leads to being able to breed true? I am sure this is where selective and careful inbreeding has a role, but not sure how it all works.

 

[SteveH]

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Not so much hybrids as crossbreds , but yes , then the breeder stabilizes his breed by culling all those that do not come close enough to the standard he sets . Crossbreeding combines the traits of two breeds . Hybrids have new traits that neither parent line has and can't be consistantly duplicated by a simple cross between two breeds or even more crosses . Same as adding a new color to an established breed ; cross out to another breed to introduce the color and then begin breeding the new colored chickens [ like lavender Orpingtons for instance ] towards the standard of perfection for Orpingtons . You select the best as breeders and cull the rest ; 15 or 20 years of linebreeding , inbreeding , and perhaps some more outcrosses and with some skill and luck you may succeed .

Actually any pure breed needs the same attention to keep it breeding true and making improvements towards the SOP .
The Australorpe that set the world record by laying an egg per day for over one year was probably displaying hybrid vigor , but those genes in her parents weren't discovered and isolated into two parent lines . Australorpes are good producers , but none have ever matched that record and most will never come close to it .

 

[chickboss]

So if I was to play around with breeding, it may be better to start with a breed/breeds that are established rather than throwing in hybrids like the FR because there would be less variation. Or does it matter, as long as I consistantly cull the birds that don't preform? I am wondering now, if it would be easier to "improve" a set breed rather than trying to fiddle around with crossing. But with the FR, couldn't sucessive generations be stabalized at some point? Or would they forever throw variables? Seems like, if you have a big high preforming daddy, and cross with a matched mama, at least some of the chicks would retain those traits....LOL, I feel like I am about to get a "see answer above" message. I like what Katythechickenlady is doing. Pretty fun stuff.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

This has been debated over and over again... but in my experience it's best to start with a Cornish X or a Freedom Ranger then outcross to which ever you want. Even though not all chicks will be uniform your results will be way better than starting from scratch.

Meat chickens that are crossed with meat chickens will give you more.... you guessed it..... meat chickens. Maybe not exactly like their parents but for the average person they are good enough. People try to complicate things too much.... keep it simple.

 

[chickboss]

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Thanks! With my next to zero know-how, simple is gonna be as good as it gets!