Ideal Ratio of Roosters to Hens

[Diavolicchio]

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Yes, by the time 3 weeks is past you are probably safe, but I'd rather wait the full month than chance a customer hatching out a mutt chicken. I don't think they'd be very pleased about that.

Katy,

I understand you want to be safe and are just being conservative here. I'm simply questioning whether there's ANY benefit to isolating a hen the extra 9 days, or whether it's nothing more than pure overkill. Are you aware of any documented cases of a hen isolated for a full 21 days ever producing a mutt chicken? Is anyone else out there who may be reading this thread? Please post a link. I'd love to learn more about it. Thanks.



John

 

[Katy]

Quote:
Yes, by the time 3 weeks is past you are probably safe, but I'd rather wait the full month than chance a customer hatching out a mutt chicken. I don't think they'd be very pleased about that.

Katy,

I understand you want to be safe and are just being conservative here. I'm simply questioning whether there's ANY benefit to isolating a hen the extra 9 days, or whether it's nothing more than pure overkill. Are you aware of any documented cases of a hen isolated for a full 21 days ever producing a mutt chicken? Is anyone else out there who may be reading this thread? Please post a link. I'd love to learn more about it. Thanks.



John

I can't post any links off the top of my head and I'm getting ready to head out the door, but I think there have been a few instances of people on here who have had fertile eggs when they haven't had a rooster for at least a month.

I guess from my perspective I feel like as a responsible seller it's my job to make sure the customer is getting the breed they pay for. I don't consider it overkill at all. As I said before, if all you're doing is hatching for yourself then it probably isn't that big of a deal if you hatch out a few mutts.

 

[Diavolicchio]

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Quote:
Katy,

It's overkill if you've got no documented proof to the contrary and are simply going on a hunch or what you think you may have heard someone say about someone else who maybe coulda shoulda woulda kinda might've had an instance. Maybe. But you're not really sure. Nor were they.

You're basically implying that anyone who would sell fertilized eggs produced by a hen isolated for less than a full month is being irresponsible. That's offensive.

If you feel the need to isolate your hens for a full month, great. But I resent the implication that anyone else who breeds their hens after just 21 days of isolation is somehow compromising their standards--regardless of the recipient of the eggs--and running a higher risk of mutt chickens, especially given the fact you've got no evidence (as opposed to anecdotal hearsay or a foggy memory) that it's even possible.



John

 

[speckledhen]

Read this story from Feathersite on this bird. The blurb under his picture and that would be one instance that Katy is talking about.

http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/ChickMixG/Cull.JPEG

Cull," who hatched in my flock but now belongs to my friend Ray

Cull's history is odd. He hatched out of a pen of Marans that had been separated for breeding for nearly 2 months before the egg he hatched from was laid, yet with his pea comb and heavily feathered legs he looks to be a Brahma cross. This leads us to suspect that hens can sometimes retain fertile sperm for more than the normally accepted 3 weeks!

Photo courtesy of Ray Seney​

 

[Diavolicchio]

Quote:

If the reason for this aberration in his chickens is indeed the result of fertile sperm from some rogue rooster that remained in the hen for 2 months (which I HIGHLY doubt), then shouldn't Katy be putting her hens in quarantine for at least 2 months before breeding them? You know, just to be really REALLY sure?

My guess is the cause of that odd chicken is the result of either the hen or the rooster being genetically impure to begin with. It had nothing to do with viable, prehistoric sperm in the hen.

Thanks for posting the link though.



John

 

[speckledhen]

In my personal experience (and you can take it for whatever it's worth to you), when my flock rooster died suddenly, I was seeing fertile eggs for close to 3 weeks in my hens, then I ceased to see the bullseyes any longer. My cockerel was injured and unable to walk at the time, so I know it was Hawkeye's and not Zane's. And I did incubate one of the eggs under a broody, so I know they were still fertile at that time. I think there are rare instances, as in the Feathersite example, but generally, by 3 weeks, you are good to go.

 

[Katy]

Quote:

If the reason for this aberration in his chickens is indeed the result of fertile sperm from some rogue rooster that remained in the hen for 2 months (which I HIGHLY doubt), then shouldn't Katy be putting her hens in quarantine for at least 2 months before breeding them? You know, just to be really REALLY sure?

My guess is the cause of that odd chicken is the result of either the hen or the rooster being genetically impure to begin with. It had nothing to do with viable, prehistoric sperm in the hen.

Thanks for posting the link though.



John

Look John, you came here looking for advice from those of us who have been raising chickens for a long time....in my case I've had chickens all my life (57 years) and been serious about raising them for 36+years....you can either take our advice or leave it.
I can tell from your posts and your answers that you're going to do what you darn well please no matter what anyone suggests to you on here. I think you're going to find that jumping in and trying to breed as many breeds as what you have said....and just that many chickens in general is going to be more work and expense that you know. I wish you well on your venture but just keep in mind some of us here may actually know what we're talking about.

 

[speckledhen]

John, you do seem to have a penchant for challenging every bit of advice you are given; if you don't agree with it or don't like the answer to your questions, then simply do not take it. No one says you have to do anything a certain way. Live and learn is sometimes the only way to do it, but trust me, there are so, so many long time chicken-keepers here who do know their stuff.

As my daddy always said, "There is more than one way to skin a cat." Not everyone manages their flock the same way and some of us change what does not work to what does after some time.

 

[Diavolicchio]

Quote:
I've gotten a lot of great, sound advice from the vast majority of people on here with whom I've conversed. This forum is really quite a wonderful resource and clearinghouse of information for people who are truly passionate about chickens. Many of the suggestions I've been given--for example in this thread regarding the type of coop to build--have made me go in the complete opposite direction from what I'd originally thought made sense. Yet the vast majority of suggestions people have been kind enough to share seem to be sound, proven and based on concrete experience and data. They've not been hunches. So no, you are incorrect in your assumption that I'm going to do darn well what I please no matter what anyone suggests on here.

The following suggestion of yours however:

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appears to be based on little more than a hunch. The fact that your hens, having been quarantined for a full month, have never thrown a mutt chicken says nothing about whether you'd have gotten identical results breeding them after just 21 days, which by the way is the period of time that is generally considered the standard in the 3 or 4 sources I've consulted on chicken breeding.

As far as I'm concerned, hunches aren't very persuasive arguments, regardless of whether or not you've followed the same one for the past 36 years.

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Katy, the only advice I'm passing on is the singular piece of advice you gave me this morning. This has nothing in the least to do with the advice I've gotten from anyone else.

I do appreciate you at least taking the time to respond.




John

 

[Diavolicchio]

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Cynthia:

For someone who's trying to learn as much as possible, I think it's healthy to challenge things that may seem counter-intuitive. It's part of the learning process. If my stance on something in wrong, terrific! I get to learn from that. Further, I don't feel any degree of obligation to take any one person's advice. Yes indeed, there are often many ways to accomplish the same result. It's just really helpful to hear many different people's responses to the same question, and to choose the direction I'm going to go taking all of that advice into account.

I'm not questioning in the least whether Katy knows how to raise chickens. She's been serious about raising chickens for nearly as long as I've been alive. I simply questioned her stance on ONE COMMENT she'd made and asked her how she went about concluding what she had, and the best I could get in the way of a sound explanation was:

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I just don't find that kind of a response to my question particularly compelling.



John