I'm Simple Minded, Please Explain

Thanks, I'm trying to understand. Knowing if a blue gene "switch" is on is determined how? By the blue egg? I don't get the dominant thing either. Why would my totally white rooster be black dominant (which I was told, and that he would ALWAYS create black chicks)? This seems to be the case, but I just don't get it!!! :barnie

Er, chicken feather colors are a little trickier and I don't know as much about. They're not simple genes like egg color and often have dominance trees and express differently on males vs females (like how roosters are very different colors than hens).

Dominant/recessive is just a reference to many On switches it takes to show a gene. So a simple dominant gene just means if you have one copy of it, it is expressed.
And recessive means that if you have one copy of it it doesn't express. So a recessive gene means you can carry a copy of it without it showing up. It takes two with a recessive, like a lightswitch and pull string on a ceiling lamp - if they're not both on there's no light.

For feather colors there's dominance trees that determine which color will show up first. It's kind of like paint colors. Like black/red. If you have an animal that is black, it might be carrying red but you can't see it because the black is too dark to see the red color. If you paint something red and then paint black over it, it's still got red paint, you just can't see it anymore. So genetically an animal may carry the genetics for red color but you never see it because it ALSO carries black and the black overwhelms the red.

Often times white colors (and for that matter, any patterns) are characterized by totally separate genes than color alone, one that just determines whether or not there will be any color at all, because white is the absence of pigment, not a color itself.
Almost like painting with paint that's only visible on some surfaces. You still paint the animal red, then black on top. But it only shows up in specific spots. This is how barring works (a gene says the bird is X colors, then another gene says 'color doesn't show up in these places') and I assume it's how your own birds feathers work. Your chicken is probably genetically black but has another gene that is harder to pass on (maybe it is recessive or requires a particular group of pairs in a certain order) saying "no color allowed". But I know very little about dominance trees in birds, only mammals.

But this is all very complicated and may require some studying. Blue eggs are a simple dominant and egg color is pretty simple because outside of particular shades, there's only 3 major colors - white (no color), blue (shell pigment), and brown (shell coating).

So if a chicken lays a blue or green egg it's guaranteed to carry at least one blue egg gene turned "on".
If their offspring always come out laying blue or green eggs, no matter who you breed them to they'd be guaranteed to have two blues "on".
If they do not lay a blue/green egg they have no copies of the gene.
From there a simple punnet square as shown above helps you track your egg colors.
 
Every chicken, male and female, carries 2 genes for egg shell color. Every chicken passes on 1 of those genes to it's offspring; so the offspring each have 2 genes, 1 from each parent. The blue shell gene is dominate over the white shell gene so a hen only needs 1 out of the 2 genes to be blue in order to lay a blue shelled egg.

The genes for brown coating are more complicated. I don't bother trying to learn about them beyond the basics since you can't really predict the results 100% when breeding for green vs olive eggs, because sometimes even a pairing with a dark brown egg can result in just a green egg.

The only way to know if your EE hen has 1 or 2 blue shell genes (apart from DNA testing) is to do some test hatching. You'll need to pair her with a rooster that you know has 2 white shell genes, like your JG, and wait for their female offspring to lay eggs. If any of the offspring lay a white (if you pair with a white layer rooster) or brown egg you know that your EE has a while shell gene. If they all lay blue or green, she has 2 blue shell genes. (Though statistically speaking you'd have to do a lot of test hatches to be sure.)
 
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Er, chicken feather colors are a little trickier and I don't know as much about. They're not simple genes like egg color and often have dominance trees and express differently on males vs females (like how roosters are very different colors than hens).

Dominant/recessive is just a reference to many On switches it takes to show a gene. So a simple dominant gene just means if you have one copy of it, it is expressed.
And recessive means that if you have one copy of it it doesn't express. So a recessive gene means you can carry a copy of it without it showing up. It takes two with a recessive, like a lightswitch and pull string on a ceiling lamp - if they're not both on there's no light.

For feather colors there's dominance trees that determine which color will show up first. It's kind of like paint colors. Like black/red. If you have an animal that is black, it might be carrying red but you can't see it because the black is too dark to see the red color. If you paint something red and then paint black over it, it's still got red paint, you just can't see it anymore. So genetically an animal may carry the genetics for red color but you never see it because it ALSO carries black and the black overwhelms the red.

Often times white colors (and for that matter, any patterns) are characterized by totally separate genes than color alone, one that just determines whether or not there will be any color at all, because white is the absence of pigment, not a color itself.
Almost like painting with paint that's only visible on some surfaces. You still paint the animal red, then black on top. But it only shows up in specific spots. This is how barring works (a gene says the bird is X colors, then another gene says 'color doesn't show up in these places') and I assume it's how your own birds feathers work. Your chicken is probably genetically black but has another gene that is harder to pass on (maybe it is recessive or requires a particular group of pairs in a certain order) saying "no color allowed". But I know very little about dominance trees in birds, only mammals.

But this is all very complicated and may require some studying. Blue eggs are a simple dominant and egg color is pretty simple because outside of particular shades, there's only 3 major colors - white (no color), blue (shell pigment), and brown (shell coating).

So if a chicken lays a blue or green egg it's guaranteed to carry at least one blue egg gene turned "on".
If their offspring always come out laying blue or green eggs, no matter who you breed them to they'd be guaranteed to have two blues "on".
If they do not lay a blue/green egg they have no copies of the gene.
From there a simple punnet square as shown above helps you track your egg colors.
Thank you! What you wrote here makes perfect sense to me! :clap
 
Every chicken, male and female, carries 2 genes for egg shell color. Every chicken passes on 1 of those genes to it's offspring; so the offspring each have 2 genes, 1 from each parent. The blue shell gene is dominate over the white shell gene so a hen only needs 1 out of the 2 genes to be blue in order to lay a blue shelled egg.

The genes for brown coating are more complicated. I don't bother trying to learn about them beyond the basics since you can't really predict the results 100% when breeding for green vs olive eggs, because sometimes even a pairing with a dark brown egg can result in just a green egg.

The only way to now if your EE hen has 1 or 2 blue shell genes (apart from DNA testing) is to do some test hatching. You'll need to pair her with a rooster that you know has 2 while shell genes, like your JG, and wait for their female offspring to lay eggs. If any of the offspring lay a white (if you pair with a white layer rooster) or brown egg you know that your EE has a while shell gene. If they all lay blue or green, she has 2 blue shell genes. (Though statistically speaking you'd have to do a lot of test hatches to be sure.)
Thank you, this makes sense to me. I (right now) only have the JG rooster, so all breeding is from him. My broody Maggie hatched three chicks 3 weeks ago. One of from her (Buff Orpington), one from my EE, and one from a Delaware. I can tell the one from the EE, she has a pretty brown face, and lots of brown feathers. I'm hoping she IS a girl and will lay green eggs for me! :fl

easter egger chick 14 days old.jpg
 
It's always rooster first.

As for whether it matters: For blue, it doesn't matter which parent carries the gene, but a couple of the brown genes are sexlinked (or so I understand), so to have more brown/darker green laying pullets you'd want to use brown-egg roosters.
Yes, on breeding project males take precedence to females, aside from the polygenic trait of the brown eggshell trait(a few are sex-linked) there are also brown shell mutation inhibitors(as with many genes there are inhibitors, enhancers and wild mutations that seem to do nothing for example, Mahogany Mh, cream ig and mh+, Ig+).

A research found that some lines of white eggshell layers have inhibitors of the brown gene when crossed to other white eggshell layers thatdon'tt' have such inhibitor mutations the F1 produce "Tinted/cream" eggshell. Let me try to find the paper
 
Glad I could help! I don't know of any books - I picked up most of my knowledge by studying coat colors and fur types in rabbits because I breed them. A lot of rabbit fur genetics are a good jumping off point because the genetics are often fairly simple and the color/pattern trees are straightforward.
 
Yes, on breeding project males take precedence to females, aside from the polygenic trait of the brown eggshell trait(a few are sex-linked) there are also brown shell mutation inhibitors(as with many genes there are inhibitors, enhancers and wild mutations that seem to do nothing for example, Mahogany Mh, cream ig and mh+, Ig+).

A research found that some lines of white eggshell layers have inhibitors of the brown gene when crossed to other white eggshell layers thatdon'tt' have such inhibitor mutations the F1 produce "Tinted/cream" eggshell. Let me try to find the paper
Thank you! I'll have to read this about 13 times and look up some of the meanings but I appreciate you trying to teach me! :hugs
 
Glad I could help! I don't know of any books - I picked up most of my knowledge by studying coat colors and fur types in rabbits because I breed them. A lot of rabbit fur genetics are a good jumping off point because the genetics are often fairly simple and the color/pattern trees are straightforward.
I found a couple of books on Amazon. One is from the year I was born, making it 70 years old! The other was from much before that, 1913 I believe. I'm not having luck finding a genetic book for a dummy like me! Part of the problem is that I do not know the "terminology", so I am confused easily. Thanks for all your logical help! :yesss:
 
I found a couple of books on Amazon. One is from the year I was born, making it 70 years old! The other was from much before that, 1913 I believe. I'm not having luck finding a genetic book for a dummy like me! Part of the problem is that I do not know the "terminology", so I am confused easily. Thanks for all your logical help! :yesss:
Which books did you find on chicken genetics?
 

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