In search of the elusive dark orange yolk

[MeepBeep]

I feel that is open to debate, I can get a give or take 50-70lb bale of heavily alfalfa mixed hay for about $3-5 locally, that is a lot of protein and a lot of carotenoids for under $5...

I am very familiar with the nutritional benefits of hays (alfalfa in particular) and have post over the years to prove it, Yes, alfalfa hay has proteins and carotenoids but you have two major problems when the diet is also dominated by grains, First is the birds will not eat large amounts, Second is the protein fraction in more difficult to digest. On top of the digestibility issue you have the amno acid profile making up that difficult to digest protein which makes such hay very limited as a protein source for birds with high protein demands (growing or in lay). It is descent for birds on a maintenance ration during the winter months. I value the hay more for its fiber content that serves as a partial replacement for coarse fibers that normally would be associated with large amounts of tender rapidly growing greens that are higher in available protein and vitamins associated with developing plant tissues.

Thanks all fine and dandy but what does that have to do with alfalfa being or not being a cost competitive alternative to dried pepper powders as a carotenoids supplementation with the benefits of proteins as I suggested?

 

[centrarchid]

We need to do an experiment to compare cost effectiveness. First we need to setup criteria enabling comparisons of resulting eggs. Then we need to figure out formulation cost on an as fed basis. That is my suggestion if this is to be taken seriously.

 

[Hholly]

 

[centrarchid]

MeepBeep, I think the challenge with respect to the alfalfa hay is how much do they actually consume. That is why I specified on "as fed basis". As fed will differ markedly from what is actually consumed per personal experience. The pepper powders will virtually all be consumed and it does not take much to do the job.

 

[MeepBeep]

We need to do an experiment to compare cost effectiveness. First we need to setup criteria enabling comparisons of resulting eggs. Then we need to figure out formulation cost on an as fed basis. That is my suggestion if this is to be taken seriously.

So if we would need to do experiments to compare cost effectiveness of supplements for orange yolks as you now claim, before making claims why did you proclaim "but not at competitive cost as anyone can do with the dried pepper powders" without any experiments to determine that to be true in the first place?

This page shows that alfalfa meal has 200-480 mg/kg of xanthophyll depnding on the grind type, alfalfa meal is just ground alfalfa standardized for a protein content... https://books.google.com/books?id=2S8rAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9#v=onepage&q&f=false

So if we take a 50# bale of alfalfa and cherry pick only 50% (25%) of the 'leafy' alfalfa content that has the higher xanthophyll levels, lets say 350 mg/kg as that is in the middle range we arrive at we can estimate that we get about 7937.86mg (or 7.93786 g) of xanthophyll plus a 20%+ protein content additive... So that is about 8 grams of xanthophyll or possibly more for $3-$5 at retail...

This paper ( http://www.sid.ir/en/VEWSSID/J_pdf/1034220130214.pdf ) suggest that paprika meal has 4 to 8 g/kg of xanthophyll, meaning to equal the 8 grams found in $3-$5 of alfalfa you would need 1-2kg of paprika...

How much pepper powder can one purchase for $3-$5 retail?

So I still stand by my claim that an argument could be made that alfalfa is potentially a very cost competitive alternative to pepper powder for carotenoids/xanthophyll in poultry feed as I stated...

 

[MeepBeep]

MeepBeep, I think the challenge with respect to the alfalfa hay is how much do they actually consume. That is why I specified on "as fed basis". As fed will differ markedly from what is actually consumed per personal experience. The pepper powders will virtually all be consumed and it does not take much to do the job.

This is fully dependent upon how it's fed, you can simply state that most of the pepper powder will be consumed as there is never a shortage of 'powder' waste in my feeder that goes uneaten every week, as I'm sure others notice as well, if you are using a small amount of pepper powder that waste could be a huge percentage of what was fed... The amount consumed in either case will depend greatly on how it's offered and fed...

There is also nothing saying the alfafa can't be milled into a powder or mixed into a fermented feed, thus making the potential 'waste' likely very similar to powdered pepper fed the same way...

 

[centrarchid]

Your math and interpretation of published findings I agree with. By themselves they do not support alfalfa hay is a lower cost method for imparting the deeper color to chicken egg yolks.

Efficiency of uptake is where I think the pepper powders will make up difference in raw material cost. I can go as high as 10% of diet being powder but know desired effects realized at much lower levels, probably lower than reported by Moeini et al (2013) and another component of diet likely promotes assimilation efficiency of the fat-soluble pigments.

This has to be evaluated by a trial, not just numbers pulled off the internet. The Roche’s color fan scale would level the playing field. My bet is my 0.5 kg containers of paprika ($6 each) will impart as much color to the eggs as two bales of your hay because of what I think will prove to be assimilation efficiency of pigments coming from the hay. If your chickens eating hay are like mine, then they will produce feces that has a lot of green it, especially when the rate of hay consumption is high. The hay components will still be identifiable as such even after action of the gizzard. The paprika as I feed it does not impart a noticeable color change on the feces even though egg yolk and leg coloration are obviously intensified.

 

[centrarchid]

When using the pepper powders I do apply it as a wetted feed. Resulting feed consistency is like a no bake cookie.

 

[bigt447]

I just don't get it....why a desire for darker yolks?...there is no difference in nutritional value & they taste the same...I'm very happy with my bright yellow yolks.

 

[centrarchid]

I am not sure they taste the same. Free-range eggs where birds consume lots of green plant and animals (insects mostly) will have a different fatty acid profile. Fatty acid profile very much impacts the taste of meats and effects how fats / oils extracted from those products respond to cooking. The coloration may be a way getting the packaging to say different. Additionally, as I primate I like more color in my food.

Benefits to birds has not been thoroughly studied. For me a very important issue is hatch-ability of eggs. The carotenoids are precursers to the various forms of vitamin A. Some of those play significant roles in cellular differentiation that occurs during embryonic developement. They act in many ways like short range hormones. With my aquatic critters, darker eggs often produce stronger offspring than lighter eggs. I do not know if it is egg coloration imparted by carotenoids or something correlated with it.