Inbreeding, line breeding, etc...

[Chicken Fruit]

I am not a fan of line breeding. At least not past three or so generations, and only where its completely unavoidable, and then I think its best to out breed and look for those same traits as soon as possible.

I've been horribly yelled at before for saying it, but it makes retarded animals. Mentally retarded, instinctually retarded, physically retarded, and even animals whos health and viability can be stunted. To me the risk of losing an entire generation to one of these things, or to give up something like them in exchange for a look or color isnt fun, but again it is unavoidable if you're ever going to have something different to offer the world.

We wouldnt have the variations in the breeds that exist today without inbreeding. I am just not a fan of it.

Breeding cousins is a good idea, the genetic diversity is a lot better, while still providing a better chance of isolating the trait you're looking for.

I am into friesians, so I have to give some props to line breeding.

 

[FenDruadin]

Thank you all SO much for the input. It is really helpful. And now I am going to reveal the depths of my ignorance while I probe some of the issues raised here...

So... if I have two breeding pens with, say, a drake and three hens in one; and a drake and three hens in another; and they are all siblings... this is considered inbreeding, right? Is that bad always? Do I need to make a concerted effort to get my drakes from different stock than the hens? And if I have a batch of ducklings from the same hatchery--say, McMurray--are they likely to be brothers & sisters? What about straight run ducklings from a high quality operation like Holderread's--will they be sending me siblings?

Okay, now, assuming that one way or another I've got those two breeding pens and the drakes are brothers & the hens are sisters, but the drakes & hens are not related to each other--and I have a generation of ducklings out of each breeding pen. The new generation of ducklings will be cousins to each other (i.e., all ducklings in one pen would be cousins of the ducklings in the other), right? And breeding cousins is A-Okay?

Now, *line* breeding would be taking one of those drakes and breeding him to one of his daughters, correct (or hen to son)? And the purpose of that would be to fix a particular trait they both carry...

Please correct me where I'm wrong and clarify where I'm confused.

I don't think I'm going to be breeding so very seriously that I will *need* to inbreed/linebreed/etc. very much, EXCEPT that I have a fairly small area to work in (only two breeding pens and a "family" pen), so I can't very well carry multiple lines for outcrossing, and will have to "import" new stock any time I need truly new genetic material. So understanding how this all works is very important to me.

Thank you SO much to everyone who has responded so far. Your input is very helpful.

 

[CityChicker]

To me, it is all kind of a moot point if you are getting the birds from a hatchery like McMurrays or even from Holderread's. The chances that you are going to get all siblings, or any siblings at all, is about zero. In any case, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

[rainplace]

I think you nailed it on the head, iamcuriositycat. I would call Holderread and or McMurry and find out specifically.

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

Inbreeding = son to mother/father to daughter/brother to sister.

Linebreeding = breeding your animal to one who has a common ancestor with your animal, such as a common grandsire or granddam.

HTH

Rusty

 

[rainplace]

I found a useful article here:

http://www.bantamclub.com/articles/unrelatedparents.html

 

[melissa508]

I dont know if it would apply to ducks, but i have seen what i believe is the effects of too much inbreeding with chickens. Some neibor farms in SC that i visited often had many occurances of twisted beaks & twisted skulls. When i asked the were very honest "country folk" who told me that pretty much every chicken on their farm descended off an initial few chix bought several years back.

I think mother x son & father x daughter crossing is the best choice (if possible) if you need to inbreed..and we all know it has to happen in order to get specific breeds.

When I was doing alot of work with a specific silkie color, I had to do some inbreeding to further the color- but I was sure to keep everybody banded by colors for family & numbers to keep track of fathers..ect. Also, if possible tp breed "half brothers- half sisters" ..at least its not a full blood relation.

 

[rainplace]

Here's another breeding article by Mike Ashton.. it's sorta relevant, but I think you might like it.

http://www.smallholder.co.uk/search...g_duck_varieties_while_avoiding_the_problems/

 

[FenDruadin]

Awesome information! Thanks for those links rainplace--those are very good articles. This whole thread answers a lot of my questions, and gives me lots of food for thought too. Thank you all.

 

[Duck Keeper]

I hope this thread never dies!

I'm very interested in how this stuff works, because I'm trying to improve my current Silver Appleyard stock (three different gene pools/lines) and the whole inbreeding (very closely related individuals (sister x brother)) and line breeding (common ancestor (grandfather x granddaughter)) thing is important to understand.

In the next couple of years I plan on breeding crosses of these three lines, then breed those line x line birds in succession until I get a fairly stable outcome.

Then someday I'll add more blood to my program and start all over again at the beginning.

I would think it's important to keep very good records of who is related to who (numbered permanent leg bands could be VERY helpful) so you didn't breed things into your birds you didn't want in the long run too.


Currently I have a color-coded zip tie on the right leg identifying specific lines I have, but in the future I plan on getting numbered bands as well to ID specific birds.
I'm hoping we can all get more input here.