Incubation - Membrane Question

[Deja_view]

I want to thank you for all I have learned from this post. This morning was candling my hatch for 1 week from now. I have one pairing that I did this year and at the 1/2 way point I see early death. when I candled today Andy's egg was the same way again. So I looked deeper instead of just pulling it. And movement. So here are some thoughts on why its only happening on his eggs. Or at least the reason I thought I was having trouble with no fertility and early quite.

The pair was separated, Andy was attacked by 2 of the young ganders he raised last year and they injured his eye. So we started the season with foamy eye and eye treatments 2 times a day. His first 4 weeks of eggs weren't fertile I put that off to lack of balance and stress. I did start getting occasional fertile eggs. But only one made it to hatch all normal. I have one in hatch right now piped. Then the next one is now only on one side of the egg very similar to your picture the other 7 eggs all look good. There are 31 eggs after that that all candle normal.

here is a pic your thoughts the red mark was put on there by me air cell is dipping. I had one egg that had a air cell on the side

As far as fertility goes: Any health issues can potentially (mostly temporarily) decrease fertility. It can also take up to a month after reintroducing the male to the female before you start consistently getting fertilized eggs, even if they are breeding. Has to do with the female's reproductive timing and sperm speed.

Your photo does look like the egg is showing incomplete CAM development.

From everything that I've managed to find, it can be from a couple different things.

1) Insufficient turning in the first two weeks of development. I assume that's not the case with your egg since you seem pretty on top of egg care. I don't know for sure how mine were handled before I got them, so a possibility.

2) Low or fluctuating temperatures within the first two weeks. I assume that, like me, you closely monitor both temperature and humidity during incubation. So this should be lower on the list of causes as well.

3) Improper humidity causing either dehydration or inadequate water loss. Again, low on the list if everything has been within normal parameters and/or they've shown normal weight loss at the developmental stage they're in now.

4) Eggshell quality can effect development. Shells that are abnormally thin or thick, or have poor porosity. Mine appear to be visually normal, but I can't attest to their porosity. Any irregularities with yours?

5) Bacterial or mold contamination, even if minor. This links back to egg handling and storage, which you know about yours and I do not know about mine.

6) Genetic issues. Any hatch could potentially have eggs with genetic issues, though less likely if you have previously hatched all healthy goslings with no issues. Though if you have had any die in the shell and have not determined an exact cause, it could have been a genetic issue.

7) Female's age. I found an interesting study on the correlation between female age and a bunch of egg health/features, including CAM development. Younger females (1-2 years) are more likely to have less developed or weaker CAMs. Older females tend to have stronger and more complete CAM development. It could also correlate with younger females laying smaller eggs while older females tend to lay larger eggs, which can also impact CAM development. I do not know the ages of the females my eggs came from. Yours?

 

[JRies]

As far as fertility goes: Any health issues can potentially (mostly temporarily) decrease fertility. It can also take up to a month after reintroducing the male to the female before you start consistently getting fertilized eggs, even if they are breeding. Has to do with the female's reproductive timing and sperm speed.

Your photo does look like the egg is showing incomplete CAM development.

From everything that I've managed to find, it can be from a couple different things.

1) Insufficient turning in the first two weeks of development. I assume that's not the case with your egg since you seem pretty on top of egg care. I don't know for sure how mine were handled before I got them, so a possibility.

2) Low or fluctuating temperatures within the first two weeks. I assume that, like me, you closely monitor both temperature and humidity during incubation. So this should be lower on the list of causes as well.

3) Improper humidity causing either dehydration or inadequate water loss. Again, low on the list if everything has been within normal parameters and/or they've shown normal weight loss at the developmental stage they're in now.

4) Eggshell quality can effect development. Shells that are abnormally thin or thick, or have poor porosity. Mine appear to be visually normal, but I can't attest to their porosity. Any irregularities with yours?

5) Bacterial or mold contamination, even if minor. This links back to egg handling and storage, which you know about yours and I do not know about mine.

6) Genetic issues. Any hatch could potentially have eggs with genetic issues, though less likely if you have previously hatched all healthy goslings with no issues. Though if you have had any die in the shell and have not determined an exact cause, it could have been a genetic issue.

7) Female's age. I found an interesting study on the correlation between female age and a bunch of egg health/features, including CAM development. Younger females (1-2 years) are more likely to have less developed or weaker CAMs. Older females tend to have stronger and more complete CAM development. It could also correlate with younger females laying smaller eggs while older females tend to lay larger eggs, which can also impact CAM development. I do not know the ages of the females my eggs came from. Yours?

Thank you Lots to think about. Im going to check out there piped egg when it hatches and compare it to the other one hatches or not. she is about 2 egg was 179 grams my average on the buffs is around 175. these are the last 2 eggs collected from them this year. I have up to 40 to 200 eggs going at all times and the incubator is non stop for 2 1/2 months I try to keep it a sterile as posiblle. Looked back on my records I only have a few culled for what I call floaters this year it was mostly Andy's eggs. My floaters usually have a death ring though

 

[Deja_view]

Thank you Lots to think about. Im going to check out there piped egg when it hatches and compare it to the other one hatches or not. she is about 2 egg was 179 grams my average on the buffs is around 175. these are the last 2 eggs collected from them this year. I have up to 40 to 200 eggs going at all times and the incubator is non stop for 2 1/2 months I try to keep it a sterile as posiblle. Looked back on my records I only have a few culled for what I call floaters this year it was mostly Andy's eggs. My floaters usually have a death ring though

Good luck with trying to figure everything out. It could also be the pairing specifically if you have never hatched from them in particular. For example, Andy with another goose and the females with a different gander. Some pairings just don't work well together.

About your questionable egg. When the CAM membrane fails to develop at the air cell end of the egg, there is a greater chance the gosling will not be able to pip correctly / is at the wrong end of the egg. In that case you can either intervene and do an assisted hatch, or let nature take its course. I'm monitoring mine right now since all movement is opposite of the air cell and will most likely try to assist if needed. Though at the moment I am trying to see if I can get the gosling to move towards the air cell by elevating that end of the egg.

One of mine has pipped internally and a second is still shadowing. A third is questionable if it's still alive at this point, very dark and hard to see anything beyond the air cell outside of a couple intact vessels. Whether those vessels mean it is still alive, or whether they just haven't disintegrated yet. The fourth is my questionable one that I'm trying to get to move to the air cell.