INDIANA BYC'ers HERE!

[Chaneys Ranch]

Had to get on to post today--my little call duck, Trudi, finally laid her first egg overnight!

And, no surprise with how active those two are, it was fertile!

So duck people, since I'm a total novice when it comes down to it. Do ducks need oyster shell as well? I ask because Trudi's egg was soft and one of them had stepped on it and punctured it by the time I got down to them. I wasn't sure if this was a normal first egg type of 'hiccup' or an indication that she needs more calcium. As much research as I did before bringing these two home, I don't remember anything about using oyster shell with ducks, so...

ducks consume oyster shell and broken eggs like a child does candy canes at Christmas.

Agreed! My oldest scovy hen, Huey will come into the garage and dabble the bag, lol! She is a real pet, and doesn't mind reminding me "HEY" Hey mom, time for me to start laying! It could be a first egg hiccup too, but your lil girl will need the calcium. I have a flurry of nesting going on, so all of my species are about to start laying, YAY!

Chicken Fest Tank Tops
https://www.booster.com/inbyc2015tanktop

As requested, this time there are color options. The price is the same for each color. We need at least 10 ordered in any color combination for the tanks to print.

There were not 10 votes for either the hoodie or the long sleeve shirt. The tank top fits with warm weather on the way. It was a choice made by a few but I think a good one.

Now for the fun part. The Design contest is open. I would like to see a few of our designers come up with some great designs for the 2016 fund raising items. The design needs to be limited to ONE color. The deadline to enter a design is May 31st this year. Voting will be in June. PLEASE Please do not post your designs but instead message them to me and I can post them all at once. The winner will be announced at the 2015 Chicken Fest.

eagerly awaiting to see this!

I'd go ahead and offer it, but in my experience, it's probably a hiccup. We have one duck who occasionally laid soft-shelled eggs when she was first getting going. I haven't seen any for months though. Same thing happened with one of our hens. Had a few and then no more. Never a b ad idea to give oyster shell though because duck eggs are particularly tough shelled normally, and that has to be a drain on their calcium reserves if they don't receive some kind of supplementation.




On a completely different note, anybody know what the difference between a partridge Cochin chick and a dark Brahma? So far, I've seen pictures that look very similar to my new babies or both of these types and just wasn't sure if there was some way to tell. The Jersey Giant is feathering out a little faster than the feather-footies (really hoping all those footies aren't boys

). Might just be a Brahma thing. Still no clue what the little red chick with the red beak is. It's also feathering slow, so I'm guessing boy.

If you can get a few pictures to post, it may help you figure out who is who. BTW Bacon is doing awesome, but really needs to finish molt, he looks ragged poor baby.. Giving him a lil chick feed every day to help with his feathers.. His neck feathers are just starting to drop, odd time of year to be moulting.

So I finally dove into incubation season! I started with eggs from a customer to hatch them for her. So far she has given me 25 Sebastopol goose eggs over the course of the last month. The first two hatched Sunday, and they were adorable!! Just put 3 from the second batch into the hatcher. Should hatch in 3-6 days. Then it was time for my eggs. I now have 17 turkey eggs (mostly midget white), 12 Bresse, 3 Mottled Java, 1 Cream Legbar, two Legbar/BCM olive eggers, and two project eggs in the incubator. I can see life getting very busy very soon!


@ellymayRans - I was out in the garden today. Looks like almost all of the strawberries I got from you overwintered. Looking forward to lots of yummy berries this year!

Yay! I bet the sebastapol were toooo precious, I adore goslings

Wow, hope my turkeys kick in soon, both toms are really busy!
I like your idea of the Legbar/BCM olive egger, will be an attractive bird for sure.

 

[kittydoc]

On this, I'm just wanting to clarify something for myself if you have the answer. I understand simply washing the eggs as some do before selling them will not work on the interior of the egg, but I've read many times about egg wash 'soaks', specifically in Tylan or some other antibiotic, to prevent certain diseases from spreading through the egg to offspring. The general idea is that the eggs are soaked for a day or two to allow them to absorb the antibiotic through the pores in the eggshell and for it to work inside the egg. So what I'm wondering is if this idea is flawed, or if this type of soak wash would work in this case? I've read some promising reports from other flock owners on Tylan soaks with eggs from MG infected flocks, but then I'm also finding through research now that the rate of MG transferring through the eggs is something like 5%, so I don't know how reliable these reports are...

Good point that I would like to answer as best I can.

Yes, a long soak of anything will get into the pores and therefore into the albumen and maybe the yolk, which is why you don't want to use a soap soak because you'll wind up with soapy tasting eggs (ick). I wash eggs that I really want to save that are just a little beyond what sanding will take care of, and I just use water almost as hot as I can stand it for a short period of time, not leaving it under the hot water but just long enough to get the yuck off, and then air dry. I used to mark the washed eggs, but they have hatched at a good rate so I don't even mark them any more (there really aren't that many, and they're just for my own incubation). Even something benign, like plain water, would kill an embryo if it were soaked long enough (even at incubation temp)--the water would rupture the membranes and you'd wind up with dead or sick chicks. It would take a while (I don't know how long) to waterlog an egg, but I have no doubt that it could be done. When you add things to the water, one of the things that is measured is whether the solution (of Tylan, for example) is isotonic to the egg contents (same concentration of molecules overall, so that the natural water inside the egg is neither lost nor gained during the soak, because otherwise, the cells in the membranes would rupture and kill the embryo.

The problem is that there is nothing to kill AI. I don't think there is a single anti-viral FDA approved for use in poultry. There must not be one effective against AI or it would be out there being used to try to save at least valuable breeding stock. Antivirals can do weird things to living creatures. I tried them a couple of times in cats, but the behavioral side effects were too weird.

Anyway, let's say you have a topical wash that also has antiviral properties. It could be dilute bleach, or a quarternary ammonium solution, etc., but I believe that using these as soaks will sure as shooting kill the embryo. They are not designed to be ingested, but used on surfaces and objects, and yes, some are OK to use on egg shells briefly to sanitize them. But as a soak to get into the albumen and/or yolk? Like I said, if there were a simple answer to AI, we would have it. It's a very complex disease because it is constantly evolving and changing. The virus has two different parts, an H part and an N part, and whether it's a low or high pathogenicity strain of AI depends on which numbers you have in your area. H5N5 is the one currently in Minnesota and Missouri, I believe--I know it is one of the HPAI strains that has been identified, and I believe there have been 2 or 3 strains of HPAI across the US over the last several weeks to months. The one that is the most concern to people is H5N1, in terms of human illness and death. I know there has to be work on a vaccine for this disease. It's tough. Because of all the combinations, you'd have to pick the worst few that scientists anticipated for the year and hope that the unexpected strains don't show up in large numbers. Just like this year's human influenza vaccine--they guessed wrong on the most common strains, and it's only about 23% effective this year, whereas in some years it's up to 70-80% effective when they surmise trends correctly.

It would be wonderful, and maybe in the not too distant future it will happen, if someone came up with a fairly easy solution to AI besides surveillance and massive culling. Keeping waterfowl off your property is a big factor in favor of those of us who don't have bodies of water close by that attract wild ducks and geese. There is no one size fits all answer, but I don't believe that an egg soak with antiviral disinfectant or pharmaceutical is going to be one of those solutions, but you never know. It's important, so you know scientists are working hard on it. Chicken is the number one meat consumed worldwide, and of course eggs, too. It sucks when these sneaky viruses can live without harming their host (like wild waterfowl), but are deadly to our beloved chickens, ducks, geese, and turkeys.

I hope I have helped. That is always my aim. I take my professional knowledge as a privilege to share for the betterment of animals and the people who love them. I also respect the experience of people on this list who have been raising birds far longer than I have. When I get stumped, I ask! I always have, including my colleagues in veterinary medicine when I was in small animal practice. ISPA and BOAH are going to be great resources for all of us in Indiana in watching for this and hoping and praying it skips over us, or stops where it is. It WILL burn out eventually (this round). That is the history of avian influenza. It's a much bigger deal as more and more people have backyard flocks (which had the fingers pointed at them early on), but really just because chicken and eggs are the most affordable protein sources worldwide.

Whew. I think I might have run out of words for a minute.

 

[lbaur2]

I cant remember who posted about the greenhouses on clearance at Plainfeild TSC but thank you! I went and picked up the last one today.

how have everyone's turkeys been laying? I have yet to see an egg out of my 6 hens.

 

[Chaneys Ranch]

@kittydoc great source of info and thanks for writing it. I am concerned for the canadian geese that stay at the park across the road. They don't seem to migrate like the breed used to. I would estimate at least 80, the park has a gravel pit converted to a small lake. The geese will fly over and actually graze our north pasture. On occasion I have to shoo them off the roof of the house.
They have been here so long, they are really not afraid of me, and my flock doesn't seem interested in comingling. I shoo them off because the field is for my geese & livestock and not them, and I really don't want geese pooping on the roof on the house

with this most recent concern, I will be more active in sending them away.

 

[Chaneys Ranch]

I cant remember who posted about the greenhouses on clearance at Plainfeild TSC but thank you! I went and picked up the last one today.

how have everyone's turkeys been laying? I have yet to see an egg out of my 6 hens.

Mine are not yet, I am farther north east. My oldest BR is 3 this year so watching her for eggs first. Nothing yet from my MW. My toms are both very active and hens are squatting so it should be soon for us. I hatch every turkey egg I get here, not wasting a single poult!

 

[kittydoc]

Riddle me this Batman: How do you get a frizzled chick out of two non-frizzled parents when frizzle is an incomplete dominant gene?

A lady to whom I sold a very young (still downy) lavender Orpington chick (half English, half Hinkjc line) sent me photos tonight of the little thing, and it appears to be....frizzling!

She is stoked (if she's happy, I'm happy). Of course, the chick is just starting to feather in, but those feathers are most definitely not laying flat.

Does anyone have a explanation for something that genetically is impossible? Two normal birds cannot make a frizzle. At least one parent has to be frizzled. There is actually a scientific paper which specifically identifies the mutation in the F gene in chickens which alters their alpha-keratin molecule so that the feathers spiral along the rachis (the "spine" of the feather). I even have the citation for the more scientifically inclined. It is very technical. http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002748

Have any of you ever seen something that looked like frizzling, but technically wasn't? I haven't decided whether I am pleased or disturbed by this, but it is what it is! It will be interesting (gulp!) to see if any more pop up. It shouldn't be happening, at least not the normal way through the F gene. Daddy is my avatar, an English black/lav split. My four lav hens came from Chicken Scratch Poultry, who got hers (directly or indirectly) from Hinkjc. Lavender birds from her line have won at shows even though the color is AOV.

The photos she sent me were thumbnails of very low resolution, so they won't look good on here. I'll try to get her to send me some that are higher resolution. This lady also has lavender Ameracaunas the same age, but this chick doesn't have a beard and she swears it has to be one of the Orp chicks she got from me. However, I don't recall Ameracaunas having a beard that early, but I only have raised one from a chick. Our Ameracauna took a while to get her muff/beard, which expanded greatly when she reached point of lay. Could she be mistaken about the breed? Are many Ameracaunas frizzled?

BTW, this does not look like just regular lavender fraying (from breeding Lav x Lav too many generations in a row), which shouldn't have happened since I bred my lavs to a black/lav split anyway. The chick's feathers are growing the wrong direction, and in lots of directions.

So this is my fun curiosity du jour and a welcome break!

Thoughts? Well reasoned or frivolous?

 

[Acornewell]

Quote: how have everyone's turkeys been laying? I have yet to see an egg out of my 6 hens.

Mine are not yet, I am farther north east. My oldest BR is 3 this year so watching her for eggs first. Nothing yet from my MW. My toms are both very active and hens are squatting so it should be soon for us. I hatch every turkey egg I get here, not wasting a single poult!
Turkeys sort of freak me out! I don't know why...but they do! I would love to raise a few, but they are super creepy to me! LOL

 

[ChickCrazed]

On the subject of the growing Avian Influenza epidemic, isn't it a bit strange that it has only hit huge Turkey farms so far? I wonder if they all got infected from the same source somehow. I have been around those farms, those birds never leave the building so they couldn't have had contact with wild water fowl. So far I haven't heard anything about how any of these farms got infected.

It makes me a bit nervous because there is some sort of Purdue poultry farm about a mile and a half from me.

 

[PeacefulWalls]

Riddle me this Batman: How do you get a frizzled chick out of two non-frizzled parents when frizzle is an incomplete dominant gene?

A lady to whom I sold a very young (still downy) lavender Orpington chick (half English, half Hinkjc line) sent me photos tonight of the little thing, and it appears to be....frizzling!

She is stoked (if she's happy, I'm happy). Of course, the chick is just starting to feather in, but those feathers are most definitely not laying flat.

Does anyone have a explanation for something that genetically is impossible? Two normal birds cannot make a frizzle. At least one parent has to be frizzled. There is actually a scientific paper which specifically identifies the mutation in the F gene in chickens which alters their alpha-keratin molecule so that the feathers spiral along the rachis (the "spine" of the feather). I even have the citation for the more scientifically inclined. It is very technical. http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002748

Have any of you ever seen something that looked like frizzling, but technically wasn't? I haven't decided whether I am pleased or disturbed by this, but it is what it is! It will be interesting (gulp!) to see if any more pop up. It shouldn't be happening, at least not the normal way through the F gene. Daddy is my avatar, an English black/lav split. My four lav hens came from Chicken Scratch Poultry, who got hers (directly or indirectly) from Hinkjc. Lavender birds from her line have won at shows even though the color is AOV.

The photos she sent me were thumbnails of very low resolution, so they won't look good on here. I'll try to get her to send me some that are higher resolution. This lady also has lavender Ameracaunas the same age, but this chick doesn't have a beard and she swears it has to be one of the Orp chicks she got from me. However, I don't recall Ameracaunas having a beard that early, but I only have raised one from a chick. Our Ameracauna took a while to get her muff/beard, which expanded greatly when she reached point of lay. Could she be mistaken about the breed? Are many Ameracaunas frizzled?

BTW, this does not look like just regular lavender fraying (from breeding Lav x Lav too many generations in a row), which shouldn't have happened since I bred my lavs to a black/lav split anyway. The chick's feathers are growing the wrong direction, and in lots of directions.

So this is my fun curiosity du jour and a welcome break!

Thoughts? Well reasoned or frivolous?

This reminds me of something that happens with the Silver Fox rabbits. They were developed in 2 color varieties -- blue and black. Now I can't remember if it was due to the 2 original breeds used to develop the Silver Fox or because someone about 50 years ago bred in a white breed, but there are SF rabbit that now carry this white gene. We have heard of people having a white SF pop out of a litter with a pedigree of solely black & blue varieties for decades of generations. Could this be possible with your frizzle? Perhaps long ago in the genetic history of one of the parents there had been a frizzle orp???

 

[PeacefulWalls]

On the subject of the growing Avian Influenza epidemic, isn't it a bit strange that it has only hit huge Turkey farms so far? I wonder if they all got infected from the same source somehow. I have been around those farms, those birds never leave the building so they couldn't have had contact with wild water fowl. So far I haven't heard anything about how any of these farms got infected.

It makes me a bit nervous because there is some sort of Purdue poultry farm about a mile and a half from me.

That does seems rather odd....