INDIANA BYC'ers HERE!

[Leahs Mom]

Have you looked on Craigslist? Obviously anything used you would want to clean and sterilize. I turned my 16x10 shed into a coop. I fenced off the back 10ft section to make a 10x10 coop and gave me a 6x10 section for storage. The eBay link looks nice. What about using wooden dog houses for a coop? I know an 8x8 shed kit from Lowes costs about $600, but of course you would have to it it together. Another option that I am considering this year is a hoop coop. If you do a search on here it will bring up quite a few pictures and how to's. doesn't look too hard.

I tried Craigslist for awhile but the folks that were selling wanted way more than I thought they were worth.

There was a road widening going on in our area and we noticed that about 5 of the houses slated for tear-down had garden sheds in the back yard. Through the road dept., we found out that the houses would eventually be turned over to Habit for Humanity Re-Store for gleaning so we contacted them. Got the shed for $250 and we had a friend that got it on a trailer and moved it to our property.

Then...I had a plan. here's a few photos of the inside work:

This was the first phase...All materials used were items my husband already had (he's a saver and re-purposer) with the exception of the vinyl on the floor and the hardware cloth. I use deep litter over that vinyl. I painted everything because I wanted it to be easy to clean and not have stuff seeping into the wood.












In the second phase, added more area for the chickens but it was also set so that it could be totally shut off from the other side for brooding. It stays open when no brooding is going on so they have the whole area. There is still a walk-in "people area" with a shelf for storage and enough room to have the food can, rakes, etc.





Broody is currently using that side!

 

[Leahs Mom]

Since some folks have been asking about the fermented feed, I wanted to show my little setup. I'm only fermenting for 6 chickens and the new chicks (4) so I just use a small bowl to do the job. Here's a cc of a post I put on a different thread. Note that I don't mention yeast as a starter. There are several different kinds of fermentation and it is my opinion (based on good reason) that you should never use baking yeast in a ferment that you are going to feed raw. I have quite a bit of experience in fermenting for "people use" and am following that knowledge and experience for the feed I ferment as well.

Someone asked how it should smell - it SHOULD NOT SMELL ROTTEN. It should have a "pickle-like" or "sauerkraut-like" smell - somewhat "sour like pickles" but definitely not rotten!



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Here's the photo of my little fermented feed bowl. It is an Anchor truffle bowl (like a pyrex storage container but taller and holds more. I got it at Meijers.) I have 6 adult hens and now the 4 babies and this makes enough. I take out some in the morning then put another scoop of dry in the bowl, add water stir and go on my way. They may end up getting another feeding later in the day depending on what's left in their bowl.

In this photo you can see the height of water above the feed...it's about 1" above. In this photo the sediment hasn't totally settled as I just stirred it not too long before.



When you first get started, you'll put the water in and stir it up, and you'll think there's plenty in there. Then when you look at it in a couple hours it may have soaked up all the water and you'll have to add more and stir again. Just keep doing that until it has enough water. Then when you take some out to feed, put in a little more dry and some water and stir it all together. As you go, you'll get a better idea of how much water you need to use. After it starts to get going well it will start to smell a little like pickles.

As far as a culture starter...
-Some use ACV.
-Some don't use any starter at all and just do "wild fermentation".
-Some use a little whey.

So far, I've tried all of the following as starters to see which I liked best. I'm listing them in order from my favorite to my least favorite:
1. Juice from my fermented sauerkraut
2. Experimental pack of starter for fermenting veggies. (This would be similar to using the sauerkraut juice...has the same Lactic Acid producing Bacteria (LABs).
3. Whey from cheesemaking
4. ACV,


On this batch I used a couple tablespoons of the juice out of a jar of my fermenting sauerkraut.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Sorry for the information overload all of a sudden! I post when I get a chance!

 

[Leahs Mom]

One more post on fermented feed...just a really simplified explanation of what's going on in there:

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Some clarification:
There are some different things going on in fermentation.

-When you use YEASTs to ferment - like when making beer - the yeasts are digesting the sugars and producing ACETIC acid.
-When you use BACTERIA to ferment - like when making sauerkraut, yogurt, etc. = the bacteria are digesting the sugars and producing LACTIC acid.

I prefer to propagate the LABs (Lactic Acid Bacteria) rather than using yeasts for many reasons.

When using bacteria to ferment you will also get some "wild fermentation yeasts" joining the crowd as they're in the air and on the items you are fermenting. However, there are ways to help the bacteria along and continue to create a balance that favors the LABs.



Someone asked about "depleting energy" in feed when using ff. They just had a misunderstanding of the term "energy" and were referring to carbohydrates.

As far as them digesting the sugars - yes, that is the process in fermenting. The sugars are being digested by either the yeasts, bacteria or both. That is what the process of fermentation is all about.


As far as reducing energy-producing sugars - your body is able to produce plenty of energy without them...no problem. But the reality of it is, most of us don't ferment so long that every sugar (carbohydrate) has been fully digested so there are still plenty in there. If you ever fermented to that point, the bacteria would begin to die for lack of food since that's what they digest.

This has been a very condensed version to explain what's happening. Could put a lot of technical stuff in there, but there it is in laymans terms.

 

[bradselig]

Thank you Leah's Mom! Very informative. So how long do you have to let the first batch ferment before feeding?

 

[Leahs Mom]

Thank you Leah's Mom! Very informative. So how long do you have to let the first batch ferment before feeding?

You can really feed from it right away because just soaking the food helps make the nutrients more bio-available (body can absorb more nutrients).

But, if you are waiting for a bit of fermenting to begin, it usually starts to get that slightly sour smell in about 3 - 5 days. It all depends on how warm the area your fermenting container is in. When you take out the feed you are going to feed, stir dry feed back in and enough water to keep the feed under the water line. This kind of Fermenting is an anaerobic process so keeping the water line above helps facilitate that.

If you get a chance, stir it now and then during those early days especially. Pretty soon you'll notice the little carbon dioxide bubbles rising when you stir it. The LABs produce the carbon dioxide...just like in pickle or sauerkraut making!

Oh...if I had a larger flock I'd use the buckets but since I don't...the small container suffices for now!

 

[SallyinIndiana]

I'm going to try this, lol worse case I'm pickling beets

http://www.betterhensandgardens.com/2011/05/11/growing-mangel-beets-for-chickens/

interesting, which beets do you plan to plant?

As mentioned earlier, I'm looking at fencing in my whole yard (2 acres). I've found a reasonable way to get 2x4 welded wire fencing 5ft tall to use. How ever trying to figure out the posts. I'd rather use wood posts (like how they look) than T posts, but willing to consider either. Anyone know of anywhere to purchase fence posts (new or used) reasonably priced? I've looked at TSC, Rural King, Big R, Orschlens, Lowes and Menards. Thinking about trying fencing companies directly.

Did you talk with a store manager or even a district manager? Sometimes they will give you a bulk discount. Also ask about a pay in cash discount, Big chains don't like to admit it but they do offer it sometimes, typically more often on big orders.

Wow...I'm really behind!! I wanted to comment on some things...
My chickens are able to run free with electronet in a larger area, but I have a "dog kennel run" that I can lock them into that is covered for hawk protection. In that dog-kennel run, they had everything down to bare earth and I wanted to "condition" it so that it would make a healthy area for them. The bare packed earth is not a healthy situation and as you're seeing, you get the mud, etc. When the earth gets so impacted you don't even get worms and bugs for them.

So...here's what I did, am doing, and am going to do.

I decided to create a "deep Litter" or "Deep Mulch" base in that kennel. The idea accomplishes 2 things. 1 is that it rejuvenates the earth under it so that the bugs and worms will repopulate the area and aerate the soil making it healthier and a source of food for the chickens. The second thing I want to accomplish is to have a "winter yard" that will contain bedding deep enough that they can still scratch in the winter and find live bugs under due to the insulating properties for the earth below.

I happened to have some trees that were cut down early last year. I had the wood chips left in a big pile and about 7 months later the chickens discovered that the pile had deteriorated enough that it was full of red worms. They loved digging through it. I began my deep bed in the run by hauling wheelbarrows full of the wood chips over and dumping them in piles into the run. At that time they were still full of worms and the chickens went to town! They spread everything that I dumped.

Here is the original pile. I put the electric net over there so they could hunt for worms.





This photo is inside the dog kennel run. I had just begun to move some of the wood chips over there.


I didn't move enough to get it as deep as I want it to be in the long-run but it was a start. In the spring, I'll continue to move those chips, leaves, grass clippings from lawn mowing, etc. Again, the goal is to provide a living, healthy base rather than barren, unhealthy ground. I may eve put some of our regular compost items in there from time to time which will also add to the good composting effect.

Now...if I didn't have any wood chips, I'd just use leaves, grass clippings and even old litter from inside the hen house. I have spoken with several tree services and they LOVE to drop wood chips off at your house for nothing. When they're working in the area it saves them from having to haul it to a far-off location for disposal.

I, personally, would NOT use straw for a couple reasons. One is that it takes a LONG TIME to break down and doesn't deteriorate well enough to make a good deep bedding. I actually have straw bales that I set against the run for a wind break and I will give them away come spring as I won't put them down inside or outside. But they make great wind breaks!

Here is a photo of what the set-up looks like right now. Got the garden shed through Habit for Humanity Re-Store when there was a road widening. $250 if we hauled. My husband did remodeling inside and did an excellent job.

your coop looks very nice. We have a hawk problem so my hens (all about 17 weeks now) are not free ranged anymore. My roos (at least 9 months old) if I can get them out of the run, I do but most days they want to stay with the girls. The run is huge about 30' by 50' for about 25 chickens. I really thought that would provide enough space that they would feel like they were free ranged, but still the grass is not surviving well at all.
We are trying to do the deep litter method in our coop, but our chickens won't scratch there, no so far my husband or myself have been turning the coop litter every 10-14 days. What did you do to get your chickens to scratch like that? we started with old newspapers on the bottom covered by pine chips sprinkled with a very small amount of DE followed by grass clippings (it was fall then). Since then at least once a week I have added a thin layer of either shredded junk paper or pine shavings and topped with various treats like bread crumbs, popcorn, even cooked and drained peas. Nothing seems to encourage my chickens to scratch in the coop.

 

[Leahs Mom]

They were scratching in there because it was full of worms! They were looking for food.

Indoors, you can throw some scratch grains on the floor, sprouts, or whatever to encourage them to scratch. But...I make a point of turning the litter under the roost in the morning when I'm out there. I do it because I want to and it only takes less than 30 seconds!



Here's a link you might find interesting about the Deep Litter. It was the first information I ever read on the topic almost a year ago before I was on BYC. The writer quotes a article of Kennard and Chamberlin at the Ohio Experiment Station from the Golden Age of deep litter, published in 1949. http://www.plamondon.com/faq_deep_litter.html

Interesting the info they stated about cocci and small amounts of ammonia. While I found the article interesting, it mentions using lime which, I personally, would not use. Note the article states using lime can be caustic to the feet of the chicks!

I tried to read the original article in it's entirety by Kennard and Chamberlin, but you have to have a paid subscription to get the full text...I found that at several sites - this is just one of them: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1749-6632.1949.tb53947.x/abstract

 

[Leahs Mom]

OH...forgot to say that when I started the deep litter inside the hen house, I put down a layer of dirt in there from the garden to get the "composting action" started, then layered pine chips over that . They absolutely loved digging through that dirt! From time to time I'll put in some peat moss and they love that stuff too! Get's them scratching.

ETA: In the summer I'll add a shovel full of dirt from outside from time to time. There are beneficial microbes, worms and other goodies in the dirt that they love and helps the litter do it's job.

 

[Crafty chick]

Oh leahs mom~ that coop is beatiful! I love the colors. Such great luck in finding something that size for the price.