INDIANA BYC'ers HERE!

[Leahs Mom]

Here is our newest addition to the farm.

His name is Bugsy's But I call him,
Sir lointipfiletmignonporterhousenewyorkstripbrisketburger!

@raisinemright
I wanted to find a "feeder" calf but I'm afraid to purchase from the auctions. Have any advice on where to find someone reputable to purchase from? I prefer low-line or smaller beef breeds that I can grass-feed.

@EurekaChic I purchased a bag of almost pure CaCO3 (greater than 99%) sold as fertilizer at Home Depot. Haven't opened it yet, but I believe it if fairly fine and could be mixed with my regular layer feed. The elemental calcium was 31% and <1% magnesium. Since this is the same as what is in most human calcium supplements, is it safe for me to use it mixed directly into my feed? We've had some shell thinning lately, and our girls always have had oyster shell calcium available. Apparently, not all of them are going for it. We have pullets and hens ranging in age from 9 months to over 3 years.

Thanks in advance for any advice. Of all the lime products that people have talked about, I have never seen one this "pure" mentioned before.

@kiddydoc
Fertrell sells a product called aragonite that is supposed to be more highly absorbable than the calcium found in calcarb or oyster shell. It is made to be mixed into the feed, however, rather than free-choice as it is a more fine texture. http://fertrell.com/aragoniteseacalcium.html

I mix my own feed and had purchased a bag of calcarb before I learned about the aragonite. Next time I'm going to get the aragonite from Fertrell. I mix my main feed at an "all-flock" level for calcium in the feed and offer the oyster shell, coarse cal carb, and/or crushed eggshells to them free choice so that they can supplement at a level that they desire.

I had just noticed that for some of the birds I'm not liking how the calcarb is working so I'm excited to try the aragonite. I think that if it is as good as they say it is, it will be a better choice to use in the feed at the low enough level for all-flock with the other offered free-choice.

Fertrell has dealers all over the country. You can go on their website and put in a zip code to find dealers in your area. They also have a nutritionist on-staff that is a poultry expert. I have emailed with him several times and he is very helpful to answer any questions you might have. He's a great resource but, of course, is very versed in the Fertrell product line

@LKShepherd One thing we have used over and over again as chicken owners is what we call "The Chicken Bible." The title is "The Small-Scale Poultry Flock" by Harvey Ussery. It's available on Amazon.com for about $22-23. Best money you'll ever spend. I have read over a dozen poultry books, and while some have info that "The Bible" doesn't, mostly it's the other way around.

There is also a ton of information in the BYC Learning Center tab.

Best wishes for your entry into chicken madness!

@kittydoc and @LKShepherd
I absolutely agree. My most favorite chicken author and book out there.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

So scientific reason.  Here is my thinking. 

I'm thinking the meds don't completely block vitamins or completely deplete them.  I was thinking more along the lines of how calcium and iron work when taken at the same time.  From my talks with the pharmacy for people of course, I have found out that prenatals are high in iron but only a fraction of that iron gets absorbed if the pill is taken with milk.  The calcium blocks the iron absorption.    So along those lines I was kind of hoping that if the vitamins and minerals are consumed with the water when food is not eaten at the same time some of the vitamins would get absorbed.  Of course one can't reason with a chick and tell it when to eat and when to drink.  But I do let the food run out before giving new food.  And there are times the feeders sit empty for an hour or two, not every day but some days. 

It might be a waste but the vitamins were so cheap from meyer and from rural king that I decided to use them.  I like the medicated feed but others do not.  the chicks that the broody hens have raised this year for me got all flock with no meds and not crumbles either.  They were fine but the hen broke up the food for them and showed them how to eat dirt and bugs too.

Ah, I get what you're saying. My thought, though, is if there is that gap where they aren't getting Amprolium via their food, doesn't that mean that any cocci present would also be able to consume thiamine at that time? And then I would be concerned that if some of it is surviving long enough to do so, that it would eventually be able to build an immunity to the Amprolium as a whole. I don't know how it all works, so it's all speculation on my part, but it seems to follow a logical train, at least from my standpoint.

Not to put your methods on the spot or anything! Just that my parents are both in the (human) medical field, and I am regularly reminded of how things like this can happen. Any time I see anything in a low dose recommended, I have to shudder.

And yup, mama hen will impart some of her immunity to coccidiosis to the babies if I'm understanding it correctly. I guess not only from the soil on her feet and feathers, but from being exposed to her droppings. Which is so pleasant to think about, but it works.


Now, for a tangent. You say you got vitamins from Meyer, as in Meyer Hatchery? I got a vital pack from them and the dosage seems outlandish to me! 1/16 teaspoon per gallon, or something like that! All of my chick waterers are quart size, so I would almost have to mix up two gallons of the stuff to use it because we don't have anything smaller than 1/8 teaspoon to measure with. :/ I was wondering how you used the stuff, if that is what you have? I haven't even opened it because I'm not even sure what I'm going to do with it.

 

[raisinemright]

@raisinemright

I wanted to find a "feeder" calf but I'm afraid to purchase from the auctions.  Have any advice on where to find someone reputable to purchase from?  I prefer low-line or smaller beef breeds that I can grass-feed.




@kiddydoc
Fertrell sells a product called [COLOR=006400]aragonite[/COLOR] that is supposed to be more highly absorbable than the calcium found in calcarb or oyster shell.  It is made to be mixed into the feed, however, rather than free-choice as it is a more fine texture.  http://fertrell.com/aragoniteseacalcium.html 

I mix my own feed and had purchased a bag of calcarb before I learned about the aragonite.  Next time I'm going to get the aragonite from Fertrell.  I mix my main feed at an "all-flock" level for calcium in the feed and offer the oyster shell, coarse cal carb, and/or crushed eggshells to them free choice so that they can supplement at a level that they desire.

I had just noticed that for some of the birds I'm not liking how the calcarb is working so I'm excited to try the aragonite.  I think that if it is as good as they say it is, it will be a better choice to use in the feed at the low enough level for all-flock with the other offered free-choice.

Fertrell has dealers all over the country.  You can go on their website and put in a zip code to find dealers in your area.  They also have a nutritionist on-staff that is a poultry expert.  I have emailed with him several times and he is very helpful to answer any questions you might have.  He's a great resource but, of course, is very versed in the Fertrell product line

@kittydoc
  and @LKShepherd

I absolutely agree.  My most favorite chicken author and book out there. 

We got him from a friend, this is a holstien breed (dairy) but it will grow out for great beef also. I would try and find a dairy farm and they would most likely be able to help you out with something like this little guy. Or as always C-list!!

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Duck people! I have a question!

My baby ducky is itching her face a lot, and I'm wondering if it's from not having water to dip her face in to wash up after eating? I've noticed that she immediately goes to the water after eating, but I have just a tiny dish with marbles in it because everywhere I read says not to let call ducklings swim or get in water before a week old. I'm also reading, though, that being able to wash their eyes and nostrils out after eating is very important, so I'm getting confused here. Should baby ducky be allowed to swim yet? Or should I just find a way to let her wash her face without letting her swim? Or, even more so, am I over-thinking it all? I do do that sometimes, after all...


Oh, and just because I'm on the subject, here she is today! Peek-a-boo!

I've taken to calling her Wibbles because she wibble-wobbles all over the place. And when she peeps, it sounds like she's saying 'Peep-peep-wibbles-wibbles-wibbles'. She's too stinkin' cute!! (Okay, crazy bird lady moment over now. )

 

[ChickCrazed]

I need some help coming up with a good friendly way of telling people my property is not for touring like a zoo. We have had 3 different people stop by and ask to see the chickens in the past 10 days. They say well we drive by all the time and just thought we stop in and see if you would show up your chickens.

Currently I try to go into a detail explaination of bio security but they kind of roll their eyes and give me a look of disbelief. Our coops can be seen from the road. I have thought of making a sign but I'm not sure if that would make the problem worse. We live on a busy road but in a country setting.

I would say something like "As much as I'd love to show you around, not all of my animals are friendly and I can't take a risk in taking people around the farm". Don't tell them which animals are "mean", but imply that you have a man eater! I can't believe random people just stop by! My neighbor is a bit annoying about showing up with his grandkids. He helps me out with mechanical issues, though, so there isn't much I can do about it!

 

[EurekaChic]

Wouldn't giving the vitamins that the medicated feed is blocking be a bit... pointless? I mean, to me it would seem like that would either cancel out the medicated part of the medicated feed, or the extra vitamins would be blocked as well by the medicated feed and the vitamin supplement would be rendered useless. No offense meant, of course, just wondering what your reasoning is here?

[COLOR=006400] Again, I know more about human biology than bird biology, but often what happens metabolically is that a compound reduces the efficiency of our body's ability to uptake a nutrient. So rather an eliminating it entirely, it just makes it harder for us to 'harvest' the nutrient from our diet. Increasing the amount in our diet can therefore sometimes help to compensate for this inefficiency by just making more of the nutrient available. In this case, amprolium (the 'medicine' in medicated chick feed) blocks the uptake of thiamine (also called Vitamin B1) from the diet. In fact, amprolium mimics thiamine and essentially 'competes' for the pathway that would allow the uptake of thiamine. For animals, thiamine is an essential nutrient (we can't make it ourselves, so we must get it from our diet). Luckily plants, fungi and bacteria can make it, so we get our thiamine by eating them. Thiamine is important in many processes in the body, like breaking down sugars for energy, and it's also needed to produce a neurotransmitter that lets your brain and nerve cells communicate. So you (and chicks) can get pretty sick if you/they don't get enough thiamine. Coccidiosis is caused by a variety of parasites that infect the intestines (exactly which species of parasite varies across species - all sorts of animals can get cocci). Just like other animals, these parasites can't produce thiamine. Because they are growing and dividing like crazy, they have very high energy needs, which means they need to be able to break down sugars for energy (which they need thiamine to do). So the presence of amprolium in the chick feed interferes with this, and allows the chick to get control of the parasite infection. Generally, the chicks should not be on the medicated feed for long enough to cause them much harm from the reduced thiamine uptake. And cereal grains are very high in thiamine, as it happens, so chicken feed actually has plenty thiamine and should allow chicks to recover pretty quickly from low thiamine once you take them off the medicated feed. That said, a chick who has a poor immune system, some other infection, bad genes, or a rough/stressful start in life for whatever reason might not deal with the low thiamine as well as other chicks, and it could get sick due to the lack of thiamine. But to be honest, these are the same chicks who are most likely to die from cocci (since they are of low fitness to start out with).

I believe some medicated chick feeds are now targeting other aspects of cocci metabolism with other drugs, so read the bag carefully to understand what you are buying

Again, probably way more than you wanted to know.

ETA: giving 'extra' thiamine/vitamin B1 to the chicks on medicated feed May very well defeat the purpose of the medicated feed, as it makes more thiamine available not only to the chick but also to the cocci parasite.

ETA 2: I hate the auto-correction function of spell-check! It's not my fault the dictionary doesn't know how to spell cocci.

 

[DarthLayer]

Duck people! I have a question!

My baby ducky is itching her face a lot, and I'm wondering if it's from not having water to dip her face in to wash up after eating? I've noticed that she immediately goes to the water after eating, but I have just a tiny dish with marbles in it because everywhere I read says not to let call ducklings swim or get in water before a week old. I'm also reading, though, that being able to wash their eyes and nostrils out after eating is very important, so I'm getting confused here. Should baby ducky be allowed to swim yet? Or should I just find a way to let her wash her face without letting her swim? Or, even more so, am I over-thinking it all? I do do that sometimes, after all...


Oh, and just because I'm on the subject, here she is today! Peek-a-boo!

I've taken to calling her Wibbles because she wibble-wobbles all over the place. And when she peeps, it sounds like she's saying 'Peep-peep-wibbles-wibbles-wibbles'. She's too stinkin' cute!! (Okay, crazy bird lady moment over now. )

Your not over thinking at all! I've only raised ducks once, but I learned a lot from watching them. From what I've observed, ducks will eat and then go drink so no worries there The three ducklings (well, now ducks) I raised were a welsh harlequin and two silver appleyards and I was also told don't let them swim until they are a week or two old. Well being me, I just wanted to see them swim and what they would do. I did, but only let them for a few minutes and then put them under the heat lamp to let them dry so they wouldn't get chilled and kept an eye on them until they were dry. They were perfectly fine and I would let them swim in the sink, but soon had to upgrade to the bath tub since they grew quicker than I expected. Ducklings (from my experience) when offered a small bowl of water to clean there nostrils and face, possibly will turn into a watery mess, but that of course was with three ducklings. Since you have one duckling (which I also have to mention is adorable!) maybe try putting a small, shallow bowl of water and see if she will knock it over. Also, I love the name Wibbles and that picture of her !

 

[CCCCCCCCHICKENS]

I need some help coming up with a good friendly way of telling people my property is not for touring like a zoo.  We have had 3 different people stop by and ask to see the chickens in the past 10 days.  They say well we drive by all the time and just thought we stop in and see if you would show up your chickens. 


Currently I try to go into a detail explaination of bio security but they kind of roll their eyes and give me a look of disbelief.    Our coops can be seen from the road.  I have thought of making a sign but I'm not sure if that would make the problem worse.  We live on a busy road but in a country setting.

Put up multiple no trespassing signs. When then come on your property, point out the signs and tell them to get off your property. Might seem rude, but it is your property and I am ok with ticking off a few people so thy my birds will stay safe and healthy

 

[EurekaChic]

Oh, and just because I'm on the subject, here she is today! Peek-a-boo!

I've taken to calling her Wibbles because she wibble-wobbles all over the place. And when she peeps, it sounds like she's saying 'Peep-peep-wibbles-wibbles-wibbles'. She's too stinkin' cute!! (Okay, crazy bird lady moment over now. )

[COLOR=006400] ADORABLE![/COLOR]

 

[kittydoc]

@Leahs Mom I went to the Aragonite link you posted, and on the image of the product, it says it is 33% CaCO3, which is calcium carbonate. Some lime products have lower amounts (in the 20% range). The product I purchased was 99% CaCO3. Calcium carbonate is the same chemical no matter what its source, but there are certainly factors that can influence how well it is absorbed (and therefore how beneficial it is). Since I am not satisfied that my girls are getting quite enough from the layer feet and access to crushed oyster shell (which is also CaCO3), I am going to try the higher CaCO3, much smaller sized product. I know gizzards are powerful organs, and can crush that oyster shell, but I wonder if the calcium would be absorbed better if they didn't have to crush it so much. I will try this almost pure CaCO3 product (can't recall the name offhand) and see what happens. It sounds like the Aragonite is pretty finely ground, too, since they refer to it as "shell flour." Is that right? If so, it would make sense to me that's why you see better results that with most CaCO3 products which are coarser.