Injury to base of beak -- possible trauma or frostbite? No big deal?

[HeatherFeather]

I've found some info about scaly face mites, which cannot be seen, and affect the beak.

http://www.justanswer.com/questions/2i873-i-was-closing-my-hens-in-for-the-night-and-one-of-them-has

http://www.birds-online.de/gesundheit/gesparasiten/grabmilben_en.htm

Most everything seems to refer to it as being a problem in budgies, so I'm not really sure if this affects chickens at all, or if its all that common in chickens.

Since it has happened now to two birds in each respective owner's flock within the past few days, I am concerned about it happening to the entire flock, and greater beak injury occuring. If this happens to many of my birds, there is no way I can separate them all from each other to prevent pecking at the blood.

I'm still not certain whether it initiated from other birds pecking or not either. I'm upping the protein in the am by offering some suet, in case there is some cannibalism related cause here.


Any experienced chicken keeper who has seen this please jump in!!!!!

 

[Noble Rooster]

Eek, those photos of the face mites in budgies are scary!

Luckily I've seen no more blood but this has me worried, esp. since it seems like a third girl might be starting to have a similar issue. I think I'll lube up everyone's beak with Vaseline today just in case -- plus, if it's not a mite issue but just a climate/cold-induced dryness issue, the Vaseline will help that anyway.

HeatherFeather, re grit, my girls are very silly about grit. They refuse to eat it when it is offered separately or offered with their pellets, but will happily seek out small rocks when they are outside. I've taken to mixing it with their morning "porridge" since they scarf that down like piranhas. I also add it to their veggies when I give them those since they devour those readily too and get some intake there.

If any more experienced folks have any further thoughts, please let us know!!

 

[HeatherFeather]

I'll do the same and lube all my flock's beaks up this evening. I've been doing combs anyhow.

Noble Rooster, here are some pics of my girl who is currently afflicted. I found a pic of her from Dec 7, and it is quite apparent that the front of her comb previously came down farther on the beak. The black area of the comb near the beak is where she was bleeding, and you can see how the beak that is now 'exposed' (which previously was covered by flesh of the comb) is white, and missing some layers of beak material. It was rougher before I cleaned her up and put salve on it.

This girl is now indoors, and is not eating, and I don't think drinking. She is moving about and alert and not puffed up anymore. She had one small poop over the night, was fairly normal, whitish/greyish but a good deal soaked into the woodshavings-not sure if that is normal.

The other chook I have affected is outside with the rest, and is eating and functioning normal. She's not bleeding anymore and nobody is picking at her. It is also very evident on her that her comb has 'receded' somehow.

So....if at the sight of these pics, and with my 'receding comb' info, if you think its something different than what is happening with your birds, please let me know and I'll see if I can delete this post, and I'll start a new thread of my own.


This is my hen on Dec. 7:

This is her today:

I also found a pic on a blog, of a hen with what looks like similar type beak damage. She has a hole in hers, and you can see a bloodspot...and it looks like her comb may have 'receded' as well. There is no commentary about the damage whatsoever....but I thought it interesting...

http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Chicks_hatch/

 

[Noble Rooster]

Thanks, HeatherFeather. I'm sorry to hear the one girl isn't really eating or drinking.

I've been looking at mine's combs too because I can't quite tell if they've receded but was wondering if they had. I will go look again and look at old pictures and let you know. Otherwise, the beak situation looks very similar (but mine don't have dark spots on their combs).

I'm impressed you got your girl to hold still enough for such good photos! Mine are always blurry because they're always on the move (looking out for their next treat!

).

 

[HeatherFeather]

I'm bumping this up, with the hopes that someone who has any ideas about beak damage and receding combs had missed it before.

I'm concerned about the beak eventually falling off, or the comb continually receding.

Rareroo, have you taken inventory on the comb situation to determine if yours is receding? I can't help but think that it is, since in the pics you have, I can see that the comb starts at the center point of the nostrils, as it does in my receded chooks. I can also see that it has a concave shape to the front of it as does mine. I can see the white colour of the beak on yours, as mine, where it looks to me like raw bone after peeling meat off of it.

In most of my non-affected chooks, the comb is convex in the front where it attaches.

If nobody has any ideas at all, could a few folks please check their healthy hens to see what shape the comb is where it attaches to the beak-convex or concave. Perhaps we are worrying over nothing?

I tend to think not though, as I do have one chook affected indoors who is not eating/drinking really. Well, she had a drink today when I held her in front of the water, but she has passed very little since I brought her in.

Rareroo, has this popped up on any further chooks of yours?

 

[Noble Rooster]

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Hi HeatherFeather, I'm so sorry that that one girl of yours is still not really eating and drinking. I did an inventory yesterday afternoon and this morning and all 6 chickens now have this going on. No one has had the nostril damage that yours does yet, but it does look like the comb is receding a bit on a few of them. On the first girl I noticed it in, the part of her beak that meets her face is hard and white and forms almost a little lump -- it doesn't look like the way her beak used to. Everyone is eating, drinking, and playing normally though.

I was unable to lube everyone yesterday due to annoying scheduling issues but as soon as I'm done with lunch it will be Vaseline time. I'm pretty concerned now too, esp. about possible infections to the beak.

I did notice what look like black frostbite specks on one girl's comb this morning. While it hasn't been as cold as it was earlier this week (last night was in the low 20s -- so sad when that's a "warm" night), daytime temperatures have been higher so all the snow on the ground has been evaporating and it is quite damp. I know cold and damp combined are not good.

I really hope this is "just" a cold/climate issue. I sterilized their waterer and will do the feeder this afternoon just in case there's something else going on. I also didn't give them their "porridge" this morning since that can get stuck to their faces and then they preen it off each other -- didn't want anyone tempted to mess with anyone else's beak!

I will do some more beak research this weekend too.

I hope your girl starts to feel better today!!

 

[HeatherFeather]

well, she actually started eating a bit and drinking again-phew!

six of yours eh? Wow. I too have several, not sure how many, maybe 4 all together, where the white part is exposed.

Its been right around freezing here lately, and with very high humidity. Many of my chooks have the frostbite speckles on their combs, despite us adding more ventilation, an electric fan even.

How far are you from the ocean RareRoo? We're about 2 or 3 miles from Lake Ontario, and even though we're on a hill, its the downside of the ridge that surrounds the lake on the lake side. We definately have a LOT more humidity here than most places. I'm not really sure what the rh is, as we have 2 meters which both seem to be off, but I think it has been around 75-80% rh for the last week, indoors and out.

If anyone else is reading this thread, and have seen frostbite before, could you please tell us if you have seen receding combs, with exposed white beak?? I'm trying to determine if this is the cause.

 

[Noble Rooster]

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Woo hoo!! Hopefully she's doing even better today?

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We're not really near the ocean, but we are near a huge chain of reservoirs and the air tends to be pretty moist here (lots of morning fog, heavy dew/frost, etc., and much more snow than in other parts of the county). We're up on a hill, but the layout of our parcel seems to trap various humid spots. With the warmer temps these past few days it's definitely been much more humid. The Vaseline on the beaks last night seemed to help -- everyone's beaks were looking a bit better today. So I'll continue with that see what the story is. I'm trying to be optimistic/use Occam's Razor and hope that the most straightforward explanation -- the crazy cold -- is the correct one... How are your girls looking today?

 

[seminolewind]

I think the vaseline is a good idea, and neosporin or triple antibiotic seems to be in vaseline. You might want th treat them for mites.

Okay, I would really treat for mites. Bird places sell something called Scatt, which works well (larger dose for a chicken) or anything with permectrin in it. I think that maybe the edge of the skin was possibly depleted of blood by the mites or damaged in some way and now it is not making the top layer of beak.

It could be frostbite, but anyway it looks like the edge of the skin has been damaged and isn't producing the top layer of beak material.

 

[Noble Rooster]

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Thank you, Seminolewind. Do you think their whole bodies need to be treated for the mites, or just the face (along the lines outlined in the articles HeatherFeather found)?