insulation and heat?

[fetchdog]

i don't think there would be any savings on electricity since the lamp won't be controlled by a thermostat, it will either be on or off. and if i don't heat it, the insulation would also work to prevent the building from warming up during the day, which would be nice in the summer but not in the winter. thanks though!

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
But if the bldg retains heat better, it doesn't need to be on as much (as many days, or as many hours if you do like many people do and put it on a timer), and you don't need to use as high wattage.

and if i don't heat it, the insulation would also work to prevent the building from warming up during the day, which would be nice in the summer but not in the winter.

Not so. A coop built intelligently for a northern climate will heat up perfectly well during the day no matter whether it's insulated or not (mostly you are relying on ground heat and solar gain, with some contribution from ventilation), but the insulated version loses that heat more slowly overnight than the uninsulated version does. Honest. This is not theory, this is what they actually DO.

(Insulation doesn't really keep a coop cool in summer, either, btw, unless you have really really inadequate ventilation)

I mean, by all means do whatever you feel like doing, I'm just trying to help you base your decision on information about how things actually work

Pat​

 

[CityChook]

deleted

 

[fetchdog]

thanks everybody! my coop is raised about 18 inches off the ground. i really don't think these chickens need it to be all that warm! heat lamps don't warm a space, they warm what they are pointed at. if the chickens can get under it, they will be warm, or even hot, no matter what the temp of the coop is. i think plenty of bedding and a heat lamp on really cold nights will work. i've had pen-raised quail survive all winter feeding under my bird feeder, and i've never met a more fragile bird than a pen-raised quail!

 

[patandchickens]

Trying one last time with correct information on which you can base your decision:

Quote:
This is utterly untrue. Heat lamps warm the whole space. Put your hand above one, you will see. (Actually I am running about 500w of heatlamps in my chicken bldg right now b/c of chicks, and it has raised the temperature of this [very well insulated] 15x40 bldg by several degrees F, not too shabby although certainly not my *point* in using the heat lamps)

The thing you are thinking of that doesn't warm the air directly is infrared heaters. That's different than heat lamps. In real life infrared heaters usually do end up heating the space somewhat anyhow, though, by a similar mechanism.

if the chickens can get under it, they will be warm, or even hot, no matter what the temp of the coop is

That is not necessarily true for a very small cold-vulnerable animal in an exceedingly cold coop (it can be cold enough that even under your lamp, they're not warm enough) and even when it IS true, it locks them into pretty much staying right there in that place the vast majority of the time. Effectively giving them near-zero coop size, which can lead to cannibalism problems.

(e.t.a. - also, insulating need not cost any money at all. The materials are pretty easy to scrounge for free.)

By all means try it if you want. I'm just correcting some misinformation that might influence your decision.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat​

 

[CityChook]

deleted

 

[flopshot]

Quote:
BTW, heat lamps certainly DO warm a space.

i think what fetchdog means is that heatlamps are designed to warm objects not space (air) as do ceramic, hot air, or open flame heat sources. there is of course residual heat from the bulb and dissipated heat from the objects the lamp is aimed at. this is why infrared heaters are popular in industrial applications where doors are frequently opened. i don't think there would be a perceived difference in temperature in a draft free uninsulated building over a similar yet insulated structure using infrared heating.

 

[fetchdog]

insulation won't save money because the lamp would need to be on a thermostat, which wouldn't work effectively anyway. Why? Because, like I said, heat lamps don't heat the space, they heat what they are pointed at. This is demonstrated by placing a thermometer under a heat lamp, and one a foot off to the side. The difference is HUGE. Try it. Is there incidental heat? Sure. But if you set a thermostat at 10 degrees (and i'm not sure they even make one that will do that), and the outside temp was -10, the lamp would be ON constantly trying to reach and maintain. Why? Because most of the incidental heat will be leaving through the eve vent, insulated or not. If you put it in the lamps projection, it will be clicking on and off constantly. And, I could give two shakes of a roosters tail about saving a couple of bucks. Money is not an issue, not for electricity nor insulation material costs.
I also think this is a little ridiculous. I really do appreciate your opinion, but that's all it is. Some of you make good points, some of you just need to be right.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
No I don't, but I just tend to figure if people write in with questions they might want correct information.

Look up the difference between a heat lamp and an infrared heater, they are two quite different things. Infrared heaters are usually wires or ceramic disks and put out virtually ONLY infrared radiation and no, or next to no, visible light. Lightbulb- or floodlight-shaped things that make your coop glow like the chickens were very, very naughty in a previous life do not put out meaningfully more heat than a same-wattage plain ol' lightbulb (packaging them as 'heat lamp bulbs' is mostly marketing fluff); the whole assemblage radiates heat all over and heats up the air considerably.

Almost all backyard poultry fanciers use the latter (bulbs), not the former (wholly-infrared emitters).

As far as insulation, the way you propose to set up the coop is fine if that's what you especially want to do, I was just pointing out that it is not the only or most efficient way, and if you use a more efficient method then insulation sure does help. Even using your method, you can use less wattage if there's insulation.

Go to it, have fun, do whatever strikes your fancy, enjoy knowing everything that you already know.

Pat, exasperated and done trying to help you out

 

[flopshot]

first time i saw a thread in design and construction get pasty butt.