Integrating chickens at night

[hempda]

Hi, we have 4 buff Cochins (2 are new this year - but now full grown). They seem integrated somewhat as they can hang out in the smallish coop together without issue. But the two new chickens won’t venture up into the roosting box without (strong) encouragement on my part if the other chickens are in there. So they formed a habit of sleeping down in the run area. They are protect from predators but it’s unheated. Now that winter is here (in Minnesota) and temps can run well below zero, they are in danger of freezing and frostbite. I’m also concerned they’ll start laying in the run and I won’t be able to retrieve the eggs. Any advice for getting the new chickens up into the nesting box at night?

(I’ve been coaxing them up with a broom each night, and they cooperate just fine. But don’t go up alone. I was hoping the cold weather would get them in there but it hasn’t happened.)

 

[aart]

I’m also concerned they’ll start laying in the run and I won’t be able to retrieve the eggs.

You can't get into the run?
Can you post some pics of your set up?

They seem integrated somewhat as they can hang out in the smallish coop together without issue.

How long have they been integrated?

(in Minnesota)

Oh, and.... Welcome to BYC! @hempda
Here's how to add your general geographical location to your profile.
It's easy to do, and then it's always there!

 

[Happy hen lover]

Encourage with scratch grain? Or place on roost manually till they do on their own.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hi, welcome from Louisiana, glad you joined.

(2 are new this year - but now full grown). I’m also concerned they’ll start laying in the run and I won’t be able to retrieve the eggs

I'm wondering how old they are and if they are already laying. "Full grown" is kind of nebulous.

They seem integrated somewhat as they can hang out in the smallish coop together without issue. But the two new chickens won’t venture up into the roosting box without (strong) encouragement on my part if the other chickens are in there.

Also curious as to how big (in feet) the smallish coop is and how it is laid out inside. Size of the run is less important in this. Photos can be really helpful. It helps if we know what you are working with. With only four chickens room may be at a premium. Mine are most brutal to each other at night as they are settling down to sleep. Their maturity level and how much room you have can factor into this. It's also very possible they are just in the habit of sleeping down there and you need to break that habit.

The way I'd approach this is the way you are doing it. Consistently, every night, get them in that coop. Eventually they should get the message. I don't set them on the roost, I don't know what yours looks like anyway or how feasible that is. I just toss mine on the coop floor and let them figure out where to sleep. As long as it is not in a nest and they are predator safe I'm OK with wherever they sleep.

 

[hempda]

Hi, we have 4 buff Cochins (2 are new this year - but now full grown). They seem integrated somewhat as they can hang out in the smallish coop together without issue. But the two new chickens won’t venture up into the roosting box without (strong) encouragement on my part if the other chickens are in there. So they formed a habit of sleeping down in the run area. They are protect from predators but it’s unheated. Now that winter is here (in Minnesota) and temps can run well below zero, they are in danger of freezing and frostbite. I’m also concerned they’ll start laying in the run and I won’t be able to retrieve the eggs. Any advice for getting the new chickens up into the nesting box at night?

(I’ve been coaxing them up with a broom each night, and they cooperate just fine. But don’t go up alone. I was hoping the cold weather would get them in there but it hasn’t happened.)

Hi. I added some pictures of our setup. The top part is the enclosed coop with perch and nesting boxes. That part is what I keep heated with a ceramic heat bulb. The run is down below with food and water.

The older chickens are about 4 yrs old and not laying much anymore.

The younger chickens are 6 months old. Not laying yet - at least not finding any eggs. I originally had them isolated in the coop to introduce. They never took to perching (I had a small perch for them in their space). Now they seem to prefer snuggling together on the ground in the run. During the day I usually find them in whatever space (coop or run) that is away from the other older chickens.

 

[3KillerBs]

Welcome to BYC.

I'm sorry, but your coop is way too small for 4 chickens, especially birds as big as Large Fowl Cochins.

The Usual Guidelines

For each adult, standard-sized hen you need:

• 4 square feet in the coop (.37 square meters)
• 10 square feet in the run (.93 square meters),
• 1 linear foot of roost (.3 meters),
• 1/4 of a nest box,
• And 1 square foot (.09 square meters) of permanent, 24/7/365 ventilation, preferably located over the birds' heads when they're sitting on the roost.

4 hens

• 16 square feet in the coop. 4'x4' is the only really practical build for this given the common dimensions of lumber.
• 4 feet of roost
• 40 square feet in the run. 4'x10' or 5'x8'. 6'x6' is a bit too small, 6'x8' is more generous and easier to build than 5'x8'.
• 4 square feet of ventilation. A 2'x2' window is theoretically enough, but in practice doesn't create any air FLOW so better to spread the venting around (and even better to exceed the minimums, especially in warm climates).
• 2 nest boxes, to give the hens a choice

Judging by the size of the chickens in comparison to the size of the coop, the coop is less than 2x4 -- not even really room enough for 2 chickens, much less 4.

It's normal for pullets not yet laying to stay away from adult hens but there really isn't room for them inside the coop if they wanted to be there.

It's possible that the photos aren't showing the true size of your coop, but this is what a 4x4 coop -- designed for 4 chickens -- looks like inside:

First, setup for the adult hens,

Second, set up as a brooder,

 

[hempda]

Thanks. Yes that was my concern. We’ve had 3 in there pretty consistently over the years. As they mainly use the coop for sleeping and laying, we rely on the lower area to give more space during the day. The entire structure is about 24 sqft of space. But only about 10 sqft for perch/laying boxes.

 

[3KillerBs]

Thanks. Yes that was my concern. We’ve had 3 in there pretty consistently over the years. As they mainly use the coop for sleeping and laying, we rely on the lower area to give more space during the day. The entire structure is about 24 sqft of space. But only about 10 sqft for perch/laying boxes.

If you could convert the whole thing into one coop and add a run with 10 square feet per bird then you'd be in good shape.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The younger chickens are 6 months old. Not laying yet - at least not finding any eggs. I originally had them isolated in the coop to introduce. They never took to perching (I had a small perch for them in their space). Now they seem to prefer snuggling together on the ground in the run. During the day I usually find them in whatever space (coop or run) that is away from the other older chickens.

To me your main issue is their maturity level. Immature pullets always rank lower in the pecking order than mature hens. If they invade the personal space of the mature hens they are likely to get pecked. It usually doesn't take them long to learn to avoid the adults day and night. It sounds like that is what yours are doing. As a general rule of thumb, most of my pullets seem to hit the maturity level where they can merge with the mature hens about the time they start to lay. This is not set in stone, some can do it earlier and some take longer. To me this is a classic case of immature pullets trying to avoid mature hens.

I personally don't believe in magic numbers, whether that is coop space, run space, roost length, or anything else. I firmly believe more room is better, if you follow the link in my signature below you'll see some of the reasons. But there are problems with magic numbers. I've seen recommendations for coop space per chicken anywhere from 1 square feet to 15 square feet. Whose numbers do you follow? The most popular on this forum is 4 square feet per chicken but several people suggest 3 is enough.

Some people suggest you need a certain amount of square feet in the run, 10 square feet per bird is a fairly common suggestion. I like run space, the more the better. But if they can't get to it then it doesn't count. I look at the coop and run as a space system. If the coop is too small they can go to the run as long as the run is available. So your management techniques in when you make the run available is an important variable. To me there are way too many variables to think that rigid numbers are required.

Typically more room is required for integration than you need after they are integrated. Especially with immature chickens they need that room to avoid the adults. And if there is conflict ("If" being an important word) they need room to run away. I would not have tried integrating those two in that tight space but you have pulled it off. If you had posted before you tried I'd have said don't do it. My definition if a successful integration is that no one gets hurt. You've done that. When they mature enough to take a spot in the mature pecking order they will join the others as one flock.

I don't know how necessary your providing heat is. To a certain point you don't need to keep the chickens warm you need to allow them keep themselves warm with their down coat. To do that they need decent ventilation to allow moisture from their breath, poop, and any thawed water to escape, but you also need to keep them out of a cold breeze. I can't tell how well your coop provides that. I don't know how well that area under the coop provides ventilation and breeze protection, you might be able to work on that. The coldest I've kept chickens was -10 F (-23 C) and some of those were sleeping in trees. Those trees were in a sheltered location so wind wasn't a big problem and you can't get better ventilation than sleeping in a tree.

One of my typical suggestions is to go by what you see instead of what somebody over the internet like me tells you that you will see. In your situation I'd keep trying to put them in the coop with the adults at night and be out there when it starts getting daylight to see how it is going. Base your actions on what you see.

I can't tell what the pop door looks like or how it is situated. If you can leave it open after they are in bed, they can leave on their own when it gets daylight so you have the benefit of the run area too when they wake up. That probably means you'll have no problems with them getting beat up.

Good luck. Usually the more room you have the easier this is. I don't know if you will be able to get them to sleep up there or not. I don't know how necessary that is.