Integrating chicks with the Older Flock - Questions

[jimmywalt]

I found a great article here at BYC at https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/raising-your-baby-chicks

It says -

If you want to mix them in with the older hens, have the chicks in a little chicken tractor(or separate pen)just outside the older flocks run, when they are old enough to be outside. You can put your chicks outside when they are about 3 or 4 weeks old, but they still might need a heat lamp. So they will be in there, growing up beside your older flock, until they are two months old. The older flock will get used to the chicks presence there, and this will help them to get to know each other a little before you mix them in. Once the chicks are 2 months old, or stop making baby chick noises, you may put them in with the older flock at dusk by setting them on the roosts.

Adding chickens to an already existing flock will trigger the reinstatement of the pecking order. The adolescent chicks will most likely not even put up a fight with the older chickens. Although the chicks will be very submissive, and run away when an older hen comes near, not being aggressive makes them easy to get along with the older hens over a period of time. Two months is kind of the sweet spot to integrate young chickens with the older flock. If the chicks are too small, the older chickens will kill them, and if the chicks are already full grown, the older chickens will kill them. They wont necessarily "kill" the full grown chicks, but they will fight allot, and this sometimes results in death of a younger chicken. At two months old, they are not too vulnerable, and they are not to feisty, so fighting or death should not be a problem.

My questions -

We live in Michigan where it's currently 25 degrees outside (yes, on March 25th!). The extended forecast says below normal temps for April, May & June. Our 3 new chicks are about 12 days old (almost 2 weeks). Hopefully over the next 6 weeks (around May 6th) it will be much warmer outside.... But I'm not holding my breath. At that point they will be 2 months old.

So at what temperature can chicks be put outside? This is our second year of raising chicks and I don't remember from last year. I think they were 6 to 8 weeks old at the time.

I have a chicken tractor set up for he babies which will be right by our other 5 chickens from last year. All are hens. The tractor will have it's own temporary coop for the babies to go in.

If I wait till the chicks are 6 weeks old to put outside (if it's warm enough) then they can be near the older group for 2 week before I introduce them. Is that enough time?

The article states to put the babies on the roost at night next to the older group, but I really won't be able to do that unless I leave them with the older group the next day after they wake up... and that worries me.

What if I leave the babies in the tractor, and then during the day move 1 or 2 from the older group to the babies tractor? Then the babies will still be on their "turf" and maybe the older ones won't hurt them. If I do that over a couple days all the older ones will be introduced to the younger. Then what if I move them all back to the main coop/run?

What do you think? It bothers me to read that at two months is the "sweet spot" to make the move. Until I read this I was planning on waiting till the babies were almost the size of the older group.

My 3 ISA Brown's are the dominate ones in the older group, which also consists of my Easter-egger and bantam.

Thank you.

 

[debid]

The big problem with that article is that chickens are unpredictable in their range of reactions to fluffy little intruders. Some won't be too harsh, others won't be satisfied until they drive them out. The only certainty is that there will be some pecking and upset.

After the nighttime introduction of "big enough but not too old pullets" technique failed miserably (and they killed the youngest, not the older pullets), I switched to side-by-side housing with mixing during range time for an extended period. I also took out the insecure rooster once it was clear he was the biggest threat. Much smoother that second time and no blood was drawn although they were hardly the welcome wagon. :/ And now I know why my grandmother stewed the hens and started over when they got a bit old.

 

[debid]

BTW, it was the hens lowest in the order that defended their position the most vigorously. The top few mostly ignored them other than reminding them that they had first dibs on treats.

 

[Tumbleweed Farm]

I agree with Dbid--it's always the llowest hens that are the meanest to the newcomers.

 

[jimmywalt]

I agree with Dbid--it's always the llowest hens that are the meanest to the newcomers.

That's good to know. I'll keep that in mind.

Don't think I will introduce them at night on the roost based on the first comment. I don't want any to fight or die.

I'll take the 2 that are lowest on the pole of the older group and introduce them to the new chicks in the chicks "turf" (tractor) at about 8 or 9 weeks of age.

Sound good?

 

[debid]

Partial introductions just mean you go through the process more than once. I wouldn't. Do it once and be done. The more intruders, the better because the negative attention is spread around. If you can house where they see each other, I do think it helps. If you can introduce them out where they can escape and on neutral turf, I think that helps too. But at some point, you'll have to just let them do what they are going to do and there will be unrest. I waited until the youngsters were sneaking in on their own to explore the big coop and were already halfway accepted. They still needed some encouragement to roost there and it was a few days of me taking them from the run and putting them on a new (lower) perch I'd added just for them before they'd attempt it on their own. I was shocked that my sweet as pie hens are mean little biddies to newbies!

 

[Cluck Wild Farm]

I've had our eleven, two month old pullets in a fenced off ('nursery') area of the coop for around three weeks, hoping the big hens would get used to seeing the little ones through the chicken wire, and all would be well when I integrated. Last night at dusk, I attempted to put the little ones in with the big girls, and my normally sweetest, lowest on the totem pole, and friendliest hen attacked them! Our two month old blue cochin ran into a corner, and buried her head in the dirt. She was terrified. I don't know if what I did was right or wrong, but I put them back in their fenced off area. Not sure where to go from here, I don't want the little ones to get killed by a hen, but they're growing out of the nursery coop area.

 

[debid]

Hiding places help, too. Break up the line of sight. I have a roost in the run where the newbies went for a rest. For some reason, just being above the line of sight was a chase ender.

 

[Ridgerunner]

That is a lot of questions and so many misconceptions so this will probably be long. You probably got those misconceptions from this forum so bear with me.

Forget the sweet spot. Some people on here will tell you that the sweet spot is 2 weeks or less. Some will insist it’s 16 weeks or older. There is no one sweet spot that works for all of us. We’re all unique. We all have different conditions. I’ve had a broody hen that weaned her chicks at three weeks. I’ve had some wait a whole lot longer.

One way chickens have to be able to live peacefully as a flock is that when there is a conflict the weaker runs away from the stronger. To avoid conflict, the weaker will try to avoid the stronger. That’s why you often see sub-flocks when you integrate. The weaker are avoiding the stronger. They need room to avoid or run away.

There are a few different things to do with integration. Chickens can recognize which chickens are in their flock. Sometimes, not always but sometimes, a chicken will attack a strange chicken that has invaded their territory. You’d think that would be the dominant chicken, whether rooster or hen, but it’s often not. This does not happen always but it happens often enough that it is something to consider. This is where housing them next to each other for a while can help. It doesn’t always work and it’s not always necessary, but it is worth doing. One week might be plenty long enough. A month might not be long enough. It depend on the chicken’s individual personality. But if you can do at least a week, you have greatly improved your odds.

Then there is the pecking order. Each chicken in the flock needs to know where it ranks socially with all other flock members. That way they know what proper chicken etiquette is when they meet socially. When two chickens share personal space and they don’t know which one outranks the other, one tries to intimidate the other, often by pecking. If one runs away, then they know which one has the higher status. There may be some chasing and a repeat performance to drive the message home, but it’s settled. One key is there has to be enough room for the chicken to run away. If there is not enough room to run and get away with a little chasing, the winner doesn’t know she has won so she keeps attacking. That’s one time you have a disaster.

A mature chicken always outranks an immature chicken and has the right to enforce that ranking. Sometimes, not always but it’s pretty common, when an immature chicken invades the personal space the mature chicken will peck and maybe even attack. The more age difference there is the more danger there is. It’s not just about size, but when you have small chicks, they are at more risk than older chicks, even if the older chicken is a tiny bantam. Something that can happen with very young chicks especially is that instead of trying to run away they just hunker down. The attacker will keep attacking because they are not running away. If that chick has a broody hen protecting it that strategy isn’t bad. Mama will come to the rescue. But if you don’t have a broody hen taking care of them, that is not a good strategy.

Not all adult chickens go out of their way to attack a young chick or even a strange chicken of any age. It’s not unusual for a hen to peck a chick that invades its personal space, but that doesn’t happen all the time either. Several times I’ve seen a chick, let’s day two weeks old, being raised by a broody hen with the flock. That chick leaves Mama’s protection and goes to stand next to the big girls at the feeder and start eating with them. Sometimes the older hens totally ignore that chick, but it usually doesn’t take long for a hen to peck that chick to remind it that it is bad chicken etiquette for it to eat with its betters. The chick runs back to Mama as fast as its little legs can carry it, squawking to high heaven. Mama ignores this. That chick needed to be taught a lesson. But if that hen chases the chick to reinforce that message, Mama quickly and decisively kicks that hen’s butt. It’s all right to discipline a chick but not to threaten it.

So what can you do to improve your odds of a successful integration? House them next to each other for at least a week. Provide different feeding and watering stations so the young ones don’t have to challenge the big chickens to eat and drink. Spread them out, one in the coop, one in the run, and another somewhere else isn’t too many.

Obviously, provide as much space as you possibly can. Give those chicks room to run away and avoid. You can increase your space some by giving the chicks something to hide under or behind. Perches up out of reach of the adults from the ground aren’t a bad idea either. It’s pretty common for the younger chickens to be up on the roosts in my main coop in the morning when I go down to let he chickens out. They are up there avoiding the adults.

Provide a safe haven. This is a place where the young can go that the adults can’t get to. This may be fence with wire spread enough to allow the chicks in but keep the adults out. Maybe you have a door instead of big wire. Try to fix it so the chicks aren’t trapped in there so try to leave two escape routes if an adult does find its way in. I don’t use this but many people do.

I find it beneficial to have lots of roost space. I see more brutality on the roosts as they are settling in for the night than any other time. Give the young ones a place to roost that is not your nests but where they can avoid the adults. I put up a separate roost, a little lower than the main roosts and horizontally a few feet away. It helps keep them out of my nests.

The way I integrate brooder raised chicks is to keep them in a brooder in the coop from Day 1. They are exposed to the adults then and forever. When I take them out of the brooder I put them in my grow-out coop and run. That’s next to the adults. Then normally about 8 weeks I let them out to roam with the adults during the day but they go back to the grow-out coop to sleep at night. Often at 12 weeks I move them back to the main coop but sometimes I wait longer. I don’t follow a set formula with magic ages, just do what I feel is best for this group, but this is usually the ages I follow. I’ve never lost one doing it this way so I tend to be on the safe side but I’m OK with that.

A lot of times this whole process goes so smoothly you wonder what all the fuss was about. Occasionally it goes horribly wrong, usually because of space but sometimes you have a wacko hen. I’ve never had a dominant rooster threaten a chick in any way. They are usually a lot better at taking care of their flock than attacking flock members, but you are dealing with living animals. No one can give you any absolute guarantees.

If you decide to follow the advice of some and put the chicks in the main coop at night after they have gone to sleep, get down there the next morning and several mornings after and open the door before they wake up. Give them a chance to escape if it doesn’t go well. Most of the time this works out fine. Most flocks are a lot more laid back that others and they often sort out that pecking order pretty quickly, but occasionally you get disasters with this method. It’s kind of the method I use when I put the 12 week old chicks in the main coop, but I make sure I’m down there early to make sure things are going OK and mine have already roamed with the adults for a month or more before I try that. And I have lots of room in my main coop.

Some people are quite successful integrating at younger than 8 weeks. The main reason I chose 8 weeks is it works well with my system of moving them to the grow-out coop plus I use electric netting for protection against dogs. By 8 weeks they are too big to squeeze through the openings in the electric netting. It’s a system that I’ve worked out that works for me. Since you are using tractors, it’s going to be really hard to give them much room. It might be really wise for you to wait until they are a lot older, like 16 weeks or even more. Introducing one or two at a time on the chicks turf is a reasonable way to go about it, but I worry about your lack of overall space during that process.

When can the go without heat? When they are fully feathered out. When are they fully feathered out? It depends.

Most chicks are fully feathered around 4 to 5 weeks. Part of that is how they are fed. If you feed a chick Starter with protein content around 20% or higher and don’t feed a lot of low protein treats, they should feather out faster. Another factor is how well they are acclimated. If they are kept in a tropical climate they are not going to feather out as fast as those that are exposed to colder temperatures.

My brooder is in the coop. I keep one end toasty in the winter but let the far end cool off as it will. This winter I had chicks just a few days old go through nights where the overnight lows were in the single digits. Their end stayed warm but there was some frost on the far end. The food and water was in the warmer zone. The chicks stayed in the warm area when it was that cold, but on days when it warmed up they played in the far end. They are 4 weeks old today and are spending a lot of time in the far end even when the daytime highs are only in the upper 40’s like today, just going back to warm up when they need to. They still sleep in the warm end.

I don’t know when I’ll put these chicks in my grow-out coop. It depends on the need and the weather forecast. In the past I’ve kept chicks in my brooder when the overnight lows were in the mid 40’s and moved them to the grow-out coop when they were 5 weeks old. In just a couple of days the overnight low hit the mid 20’s. They were fine. But they had been fed a high protein diet with no treats, they were pretty well acclimated, the grow-out coop had decent ventilation up high but great draft protection, and there were 21 of them so they could help keep each other warm. They were on wire so they didn’t even have bedding they could have snuggled down in to keep warm, but bedding like that can help.

I don’t know what your facilities look like. Where you are and the time of year I’d be reluctant to move them at 5 weeks, but if you have decent draft protection, they will probably be OK at 6 weeks, especially if you can get them some exposure to lower temperatures than tropical conditions even if it is just during the day.

That’s a lot of typing so I’ll quit. Good luck with it. Hope you find a system that works for you.