Integrating Newbies - Not Going Well

[Orit]

My thoughts exactly...more space makes everything easier.

Integration Basics:
It's all about territory and resources(space/food/water).
Existing birds will almost always attack new ones to defend their resources.
Understanding chicken behaviors is essential to integrating new birds into your flock.

Confine new birds within sight but physically segregated from older/existing birds for several weeks, so they can see and get used to each other but not physically interact.

In adjacent runs, spread scratch grains along the dividing mesh, best if mesh is just big enough for birds to stick their head thru, so they get used to eating together.

The more space, the better. Birds will peck to establish dominance, the pecked bird needs space to get away. As long as there's no copious blood drawn and/or new bird is not trapped/pinned down and beaten unmercilessly, let them work it out. Every time you interfere or remove new birds, they'll have to start the pecking order thing all over again.

Multiple feed/water stations. Dominance issues are most often carried out over sustenance, more stations lessens the frequency of that issue.

Places for the new birds to hide 'out of line of sight'(but not a dead end trap) and/or up and away from any bully birds. Roosts, pallets or boards leaned up against walls or up on concrete blocks, old chairs tables, branches, logs, stumps out in the run can really help. Lots of diversion and places to 'hide' instead of bare wide open run.

This is super helpful! I think I may have read it before I remember someone giving this advice. For this reason, I put a pallet in their coop (as you can see), and new roosts. I don't think there is much room to put anything else. There are also 2 feeding/water stations in the coop (one is behind the pallet). There are 2 water stations in the yard that everyone shares (at different times, of course). I think 21 Hens in Charge and your comment about space is probably the issue. I have no way to solve that soon. When the newbies get pecked by the super aggressive Red Star, they literally freak out, leap into the air in whatever direction they can, sometimes crashing into the walls of the run. They run behind the pallet but the bully chases them there. Yesterday I saw the bully yank a feather or two out of one of the newbies. There doesn't seem to be any blood or major injury, which I guess is a positive. And while I know this is regular chicken behavior, I can't bear to watch how aggressive it gets and keep wondering when it will subside, and when the newbies will feel comfortable coming down off the pallet to the same level as everyone else. Maybe they never will because of insufficient space. Also, someone said (it may have been you) that once the newbies start laying, things resolve themselves? Is that true?

 

[aart]

Also, someone said (it may have been you) that once the newbies start laying, things resolve themselves? Is that true?

Once they start laying is when new comers usually work their way into the main pecking order....but the tight space may always be a problem.

 

[Orit]

Once they start laying is when new comers usually work their way into the main pecking order....but the tight space may always be a problem.

OK - I'm hoping for the best then. I'm a teacher, so for the summer, I can let them free range all day. There's also great tree and shrub covering so they are not totally out in the open (for hawks - our other predators come at night). But once school starts, they're not going to get out as much. Hopefully at that point (well... really in a few weeks), things will be more peaceful. I expect that the newbies will start laying in about 3 weeks, unless they are so traumatized that they won't.

 

[jlwquilter]

I don’t mean to be a negative Nancy and I sure hope it calms down and everyone gets along but.... can I suggest you at least start thinking of what to do if they don’t get along or the aggressive hen won’t back off?

I thought about the pinless peepers too but decided against it. I was certainly concerned about the trouble some hens have wearing them but also that often once you take them off the bad behavior starts up again. I’ve never read a review that said the behavior was permanently solved by using the peepers for X days/weeks.

Maybe you could take the aggressive hen out (put her in jail) and see how the newbies then act. Do the rest of the flock accept them? Are they eating and drinking and doing regular chicken stuff? You may have to decide who stays and who goes. Again I hope it works out! But a plan B might not be a bad idea.

 

[aart]

OK - I'm hoping for the best then.

You can hope in one hand and.....you know how the rest of that goes(if not, google it).

You may have to decide who stays and who goes. Again I hope it works out! But a plan B might not be a bad idea.

It would be an excellent idea.

 

[Orit]

I don’t mean to be a negative Nancy and I sure hope it calms down and everyone gets along but.... can I suggest you at least start thinking of what to do if they don’t get along or the aggressive hen won’t back off?

I thought about the pinless peepers too but decided against it. I was certainly concerned about the trouble some hens have wearing them but also that often once you take them off the bad behavior starts up again. I’ve never read a review that said the behavior was permanently solved by using the peepers for X days/weeks.

Maybe you could take the aggressive hen out (put her in jail) and see how the newbies then act. Do the rest of the flock accept them? Are they eating and drinking and doing regular chicken stuff? You may have to decide who stays and who goes. Again I hope it works out! But a plan B might not be a bad idea.

I'm pained to think about a plan B. Even though I hate this aggressive behavior, I do love this hen. I do have this iguana cage that used to be inside the run for the newbies. I did "jail" the aggressor there for a few days, but because it was so hot, I had to let her out to free range. I think since she was only confined to it overnight and a little bit in the morning, it didn't fully do the trick. However, when free-ranging, she did initially chase the newbies non-stop. Now she basically leaves them alone in the yard unless they get too close. It's when they are near or back in the coop that it gets nasty. Thankfully the newbies have an escape (at the top of the pallet), but that is not a long term solution. The newbies are doing regular chicken stuff mostly because everyone is out all day so they are able to sneak into the run to eat when the older girls are out and about. I have several drinkers in the yard so everyone is well hydrated. The other girls are basically OK with them. My Buff Orpington and Plymouth Rock will give a slight peck if they get too close. But my sweet Ameraucana sometimes even hangs out with them. She's really the only one who seems to be accepting. The newbies are thriving, though. At least physically. Not sure about psychologically.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

I've been reading about the pinless peepers and while the majority of reviews are positive, there were enough reviews that talked about injured nostrils, "bloody noses", puss coming out, etc... that Im feeling reluctant.

Yes, totally agree, and I have no personal experience with pinless peepers for this reason. Since rehoming is not an option for members of my own flock, I would consider PP instead of culling a bird, however. When I first read your post, your situation reminded me of this thread. However, I think that @FiddleChics had a lot more space. Not much of an issue if always free ranging, but since it sounds like that’s not the case, I do agree with @aart that available resources bear re-examination. Here is the link to the thread that initially reminded me of yours:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/posts/21423728

 

[Orit]

Yes, totally agree, and I have no personal experience with pinless peepers for this reason. Since rehoming is not an option for members of my own flock, I would consider PP instead of culling a bird, however. When I first read your post, your situation reminded me of this thread. However, I think that @FiddleChics had a lot more space. Not much of an issue if always free ranging, but since it sounds like that’s not the case, I do agree with @aart that available resources bear re-examination. Here is the link to the thread that initially reminded me of yours:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/posts/21423728

I just finished reading this thread. It was SO insightful!!! Thanks for pointing me in that direction! I actually feel a little more hopeful. Attila sounds like one complicated hen. If she was able to reform, I have hope. I'm getting now that this is truly a process. I am engaged in the same shenanigans as Attila's owner (feeling like I'm a little too obsessive about it, but what can you do?). It sounds like it pays off to engage in these crazy shenanigans.