Intentionally scrambling eggs and geriatric incubation

[Kimmyh51]

Youd only need to take them to day 4 or so to see if they still start to grow. Unless you are someone with veterinary /veterinary science study and quals, Im not sure what benefit, knowledge wise, you would gain from incubating further than to tell if the egg is still able to start growing?
Ie if you take them to 10 days and of the ones that were growing and alive at, say 4 days, only 50% were still alive at 10 days, what evidence would you have to ensure you could attribute the embryonic death of the 50% that died, to the treatment the eggs had pre incubation? Vs all of the other reasons eggs dont hatch and chicks die in the egg? Including incubation issues?
If you take them beyond the time it takes to know if the embryo will grow at all, regardless of what results you get, what will you actually be able to prove or know for sure you have learnt about survival and early embryonic death? That for certain can only be attributed to the "abuse"of the eggs?

I get you are trying to learn something, maybe out of frustration from buying eggs to be shipped which were probably munted by handling during shipping, but I dont see how you can for certain, ever prove this even to yourself for sure, let alone to anyone else?

Maybe instead just don't buy shipped fertile eggs? Try to find some local?
Or research couriers who will actually give a f--k and handle the eggs properly?
Or otherwise if thats not an option where you are, maybe purchase live, older chicks/juvenile's and have them transported by a reputable pet transporter, one who will be accountable if live birds leave the origin and arrive dead.
So if you buy x number of birds you receive the same number of live healthy birds?

It might cost more at the onset, but is more humane than paying to buy eggs that grow embryos that die, or shipping day old hatchlings and hoping for the best in terms of warmth and their ability to retain their essential biological markers within normal ranges while contained in a small box with a little tray of gel stuff that for all you know has dried out or been tipped upside down and is no longer useful to the babies taped up in the box for however many days...

Also I had a duckling hatch a couple of springs ago which had an extra kind of pair of legs (it was a leg ending in two feet) which i thought must have been a twin that didn't develop or something.

My avian vet told me that it was highly unlikely to be a twin and most likely because bumps and bangs to avian embryos can result in a few embryonic cells becoming separated from the rest of the clump of cells making up the embryo and as a result they dont have the proper instructions' in terms of what tissue types to evolve into and thus keep growing, but grow things like the warped leg, two foot thing this duckling had.... She said this most likely happened in my duckling. And the mother duck was a flighty, toey duck who i had found nesting where she shouldn't have been, and my approach to her nest, or anything else, resulted in her losing her sh-t and leaping off the nest, wings flapping, knocking eggs all over.

As soon as i realised she was like that, i left her alone for the sake of the bubs, but i suspect the damage was done there for that reason.

Luckily that wee duckling's extra leg was only attached by skin and a small, failing, blood supply so my vet was able to remove it with minimal trauma to the duckling and a couple of hundred $ later she was a normal duckling who recovered and grew up with no issues and is still alive and healthy today.
But Id not want to intentionally allow an embryo to grow to 10 days when that might happen.

Pretty sure its already been proven and accepted that rough handling of eggs impacts the embryo in many ways from mild issues to deformities to death. A better study would be one focusing on ways to check if shipped eggs or ducklings were mishandled by couriers

 

[Kimmyh51]

Also I had a duckling hatch a couple of springs ago which had an extra kind of pair of legs (it was a leg ending in two feet) which i thought must have been a twin that didn't develop or something.

My avian vet told me that it was highly unlikely to be a twin and most likely because bumps and bangs to avian embryos can result in a few embryonic cells becoming separated from the rest of the clump of cells making up the embryo and as a result they dont have the proper instructions' in terms of what tissue types to evolve into and thus keep growing, but grow things like the warped leg, two foot thing this duckling had.... She said this most likely happened in my duckling. And the mother duck was a flighty, toey duck who i had found nesting where she shouldn't have been, and my approach to her nest, or anything else, resulted in her losing her sh-t and leaping off the nest, wings flapping, knocking eggs all over.

As soon as i realised she was like that, i left her alone for the sake of the bubs, but i suspect the damage was done there for that reason.

Luckily that wee duckling's extra leg was only attached by skin and a small, failing, blood supply so my vet was able to remove it with minimal trauma to the duckling and a couple of hundred $ later she was a normal duckling who recovered and grew up with no issues and is still alive and healthy today.
But Id not want to intentionally allow an embryo to grow to 10 days when that might happen.

Pretty sure its already been proven and accepted that rough handling of eggs impacts the embryo in many ways from mild issues to deformities to death. A better study would be one focusing on ways to check if shipped eggs or ducklings were mishandled by couriers

I still have that leg in a container of formaldehyde if anyone wants to see? Lol

 

[TeresaW]

I still have that leg in a container of formaldehyde if anyone wants to see? Lol

Of course!