Interesting cockerel behavior

[zayd762]

Hello, everyone. I've read many of the cockerel threads here, so I think this is validation more than advice-seeking. I'm still wide open to better perspectives.

Briefly, we started with only hens three years ago and introduced 15 new hens four months ago. Two ended up being cockerels, which is fine. Watching the new dynamic with cockerels has been educational and fascinating. I think the benefits outweigh the risks, especially as this is a mostly free-ranging flock.

I've established my dominance over them both, and they stay clear of me when I walk the yard. The Australorp exhibits favorable behaviors --chivalrous with the hens, always has his head up and has good situational awareness, usually wing dances when he's in the mood, and doesn't beat up the hens. The Gold Laced Wyandotte seems selfish as he's usually foraging with the hens or off on his own, rarely wing dances and tries to just get right to mating, and frequently pulls hen neck feathers. He is terrified of me as I've caught him immediately after his bullying and subdued him on the ground using methods I've read here. I typically try to yell a loud "HEY!" and immediately give chase when he bullies the hens so he can make the association, but I'm not sure that is a proven, effective technique. It certainly doesn't seem to be having an effect. Here's what's very interesting to me: the Australorp will run along with us as I chase the GLW and he sounds the alarm, as if in solidarity with the GLW. When the GLW can make it to the woods before I catch him, the Australorp runs into the woods alongside him and keeps him company. If I didn't know any better, I'd think the Australorp was protecting the GLW cockerel as if he was a hen! They also get along great all the time.

With 13 young pullets and 4 older hens, it seems the ratio is right to keep both cockerels. But I'm glad to cull the GLW now if he is old enough that I shouldn't expect his behavior to improve... that's where I'm leaning. I'd love perspectives on it.

 

[sourland]

He is a cockerel teenager, and his behavior may improve. By chasing and catching him you may be fostering instincts in the good cockerel that may cause him to attack you to protect his flock - apparently he considers the GLW to be a flock mate.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hi, welcome to the forum. Glad you joined.

First I'll copy something I wrote several years ago. It might help you understand some things that are going on. This is between adults. If I read your post correctly I'll guess that your cockerels are around 16 to 18 weeks old, certainly not yet adults.


Mating Between Consenting Adults

1. The rooster dances to show his intentions. He lowers a wing and sort of sidesteps around the hen.

2. The hen squats. This gets her body on the ground so the rooster's weight goes into the ground through her body instead of just her legs. Most roosters of the same breed as the hen are heavier than the hen so the squat is nature's way of protecting her legs and joints.

3. The rooster hops on and grabs the back of her head. This head grab helps line him up right and helps him keep his balance, but the main purpose is to tell her to raise her tail up out of the way so he can hit the target. Without the head grab he would not be able to get to the target so there would be no fertile eggs.

4. The rooster touches her vent with his. That deposits the sperm. This may take a couple of seconds or may be over in a flash.

5. The rooster hops off, his part is done. The hen stands up, fluffs up her feathers, and shakes. This fluffy shake gets the sperm in a special container where it can stay viable from a week to maybe three weeks.

It doesn't always go this way between adults. Sometimes the rooster does not dance but just grabs and hops on. No harm no foul, but it shows he does not have the self-confidence he should. Sometimes the hen runs away instead of squatting. The rooster may let her go or he may give chase. If he chases the hen may squat, she just wanted to know he was serious. He may stop the chase pretty quickly and let her go. He may chase her down and force her. As long as she squats and is not injured it's all OK. Even when he forces her it is usually not very violent.


You'll notice the head grab is an essential part of mating. It is not him being cruel, mean, or abusive. It is an instinctive part of mating. I assume both of your cockerels grab the back of the head when mating.

What I think is happening is that the Australorp is the dominant cockerel. The girls respect that and are more willing to cooperate with him. The GLW is not as respected so the girls are less willing to squat for him. The Australorp may even knock him off if he tries to mate in front of him. Sometimes the dominant ones do, sometimes not.

Since they will not cooperate willingly, he grabs them by the back of the head so he can physically control them and quickly mates them. This behavior is really common in a flock where the cockerel is still pretty immature and is trying to mate older hens or trying to mate immature pullets not yet laying.

Is the Australorp mating the older hens with their cooperation? To me that would be unusual. The youngest I've seen a cockerel take over as flock master in a flock with mature hens has been 5 months. Most of my cockerels don't do that until they are 7 months old. I had one that could not until 11 months. That is a combination of his self-confidence and maturity and the hens personality of being willing to let him take control. Often some hens are willing but the head hen and maybe a few others are resistant.

Are your pullets laying yet? Is the Australorp mating with them where they cooperate? This is more nebulous. Sometimes a pullet will willingly squat for a cockerel or rooster before she starts laying but that is not the norm. Most of my pullets try to run away from a cockerel or a mature rooster until they start to lay.

There are things going on with that Australorp that are just not normal with my flock. But that is a good thing. What I'm more used to with a 4-month-old cockerel in a flock of mature hens and immature pullets is the GLW.

With your two boys the dominant one is suppressing the other one. The Australorp will not let the GLW act like a flock master. If you remove the Australorp he may grow into the role but probably not for a while. He is still pretty young. Or he may not. Either boy could change as they mature. That's one of the problems in selecting which to keep, they can change as they mature. But everything you've said shows the Australorp to be a keeper.

I do not believe in ratios of boys to girls. Partly from what I've seen but also from stories on this forum. Some flocks with very few girls work out fine, some flocks with one rooster and over 20 girls have problems. To me there are other more important variables than ratio that contribute to over-mated hens or barebacked hens.

Also with two boys they may get along great, working together to take care of the flock. If you have enough room the girls may split into two different flocks with one rooster with each. The girls will decide which rooster they want. When he matures the GLW would attract some. The boys may hang out together, I had that happen once. Seemed strange but it worked. Or the boys may fight to the death, especially if room is tight.

My general suggestion is for you to keep as few males as you can and meet your goals, whatever they are. That's not because you are guaranteed problems with more boys, but that problems are more likely the more boys you have. You can certainly try to keep both. If you do I'd suggest you have a plan so you can immediately isolate one of the boys without having to prepare a place. You never know when you will immediately need it. As far as that goes, I think it is a good idea to have a place you can immediately isolate any sick or injured chicken.

Your story is fascinating because of how well your four-month-old cockerel is doing. In spite of a lot of the stories you read about on here flocks often are fairly peaceful when the pullets and cockerels go through puberty, especially if you have room. It's the horror stories you often read about. Your story reads as if the Australorp were a mature rooster and the GLW was an immature cockerel.

One rooster typically has no problems keeping 16 hens fertile if you want hatching eggs. They can slow down when they get older but your Australorp should be good for a few years.

If you can't tell I'd keep the Australorp and get rid of the GLW but that is based on my goals, not yours. Your goals are the ones that count.

Good luck!

 

[zayd762]

This is fantastic information -- thank you. I'll share some more information based on your questions.

You'll notice the head grab is an essential part of mating. It is not him being cruel, mean, or abusive. It is an instinctive part of mating. I assume both of your cockerels grab the back of the head when mating.

What doesn't add up for me is that the GLW isn't even trying to mate the times that I've seen him do this. He doesn't attempt to mount; he just grabs the pullet's neck feathers and pulls, almost like he simply doesn't like her and wants to drive her off.

Is the Australorp mating the older hens with their cooperation?

He is, and I've seen the head hen willingly accept. He also seems to tag along with her the most. The other three older hens chase him off when he wing dances. But here's how I know that he has successfully mated one of the others as well: three weeks ago, we came back from a trip to a broody hen. The next morning, I cracked an egg into the skillet and saw an embryo that was at least one week old. None of the pullets are laying yet, so this was one of the four older hens. At this point, only one hen (Americana) is reliably laying (another problem I have to investigate), with another hen laying an egg every few weeks.

Are your pullets laying yet? Is the Australorp mating with them where they cooperate? This is more nebulous. Sometimes a pullet will willingly squat for a cockerel or rooster before she starts laying but that is not the norm. Most of my pullets try to run away from a cockerel or a mature rooster until they start to lay.

They are not laying, and now that you mention it, I don't think I have seen the Australorp try to mate with any of the pullets. The GLW, on the other hand, only goes after the pullets, although it's not clear to me if he's trying to mate or just being mean. I don't see him mount. Also, I've never seen him within 10 feet of the older hens.

Also with two boys they may get along great, working together to take care of the flock. If you have enough room the girls may split into two different flocks with one rooster with each. The girls will decide which rooster they want. When he matures the GLW would attract some. The boys may hang out together, I had that happen once. Seemed strange but it worked. Or the boys may fight to the death, especially if room is tight.

It is fascinating to see how well they get along. I've never once seen them aggressive with each other, and they are frequently walking around together. I mentioned before that the Australorp accompanies the GLW when I'm chasing the GLW... to me, there is clearly some camaraderie there. I am hoping the Australorp's good behavior rubs off on the GLW through that.

Your suggestion to have an isolation space ready is a good one; I have a sizable rabbit cage I use for broody hens and can use that in a pinch.

As you and @sourland mentioned, things may change. I'll give it some time before I make a final call, but the GLW is on my dinner list if he doesn't shape up (which is especially a shame because he is quite beautiful). Is there a timeframe when it's most responsible to make the call? I want to give him an opportunity to get through his hormonal teenage time and see how his behavior settles down.

Thanks so much for the guidance and experience!

Zayd

 

[Bean1028]

Interesting. We had a Buff Orpington rooster who only 1/2 of his girls would allow on them, and we ended up selling him bc he wouldn't stop trying to fight thru the fence with the other roosters (who clearly had NO interest in fighting him). All of our roosters had their own runs & own ladies. After we sold the BO our 1/2 Australorp 1/2 Ameraucana roo (Gertie, with moderate crossbeak) overnight became our dominant rooster. We put the full Ameraucana roo (Ivan) in with our layer flock as he was the bigger & more dominant of the 2. When these boys were free ranging together there was never a problem. But when Gertie would be in his run & Ivan & his girls would free range (letting them out at different times to avoid potential fights here), Ivan would clear a 7 ft fence & get into Gertie's run...then Gertie made it very clear who the boss was & I had to rescue Ivan a few times. Poor thing was so winded everytime. Also, our layer flock did not like Ivan. He ended up attacking one of the kids in the back & lost his head last week. Gertie is now in with his girls & the layer flock & everything is so quiet here...the girls seem to really like Gertie, he's always been very gentle with them & even does the dance as well! If they blow him off he moves on to something else. He's 27 weeks old. He is a treasure for sure!

 

[Ridgerunner]

What doesn't add up for me is that the GLW isn't even trying to mate the times that I've seen him do this. He doesn't attempt to mount; he just grabs the pullet's neck feathers and pulls, almost like he simply doesn't like her and wants to drive her off.

That does not add up for me either. I can't explain it.

Is there a timeframe when it's most responsible to make the call? I want to give him an opportunity to get through his hormonal teenage time and see how his behavior settles down.

Not that I'm aware of. Things could change tomorrow or this could go on forever. When you deal with living animals you don't get guarantees.

 

[Mrs. K]

Personally, I would let the GLW go... he is not that great of a rooster.

I have a lot of space. My run is 600 square feet and I keep a dozen hens and a rooster. I have a multi-generational flock. Last summer after loosing a rooster, I put in two cockerels, about 10 weeks old.

They thought they were tough stuff, but my older girls gave them an education, and really things went through the winter very well. While looking after them, I really did not pick up on flock tension, until it was gone.

I have a neighbor, that was in need of a rooster, and I really never had any intentions of keeping them both, so I sent one too her. HUGE shift in my flock. Everything just seemed so much more relaxed. It seemed like the hens could just focus on one cockerel, and he could just focus on his girls. It was very noticeable.

So I really think that I would allow that rooster to go on somewhere else. Let the one rooster keep the flock, then next year, raise up some boys under him, picking a second rooster out of that bunch if your really want two roosters. There is a bit of evidence, not a lot, but some, that brothers will eventually fight, where as father/sons tend to get along better. (this is just some observations, not real scientific, and really roosters are just a crap shoot).

You do have more hens than I do, but I am just suggesting that it might not be as good as you think with the two roosters. I think one rooster could cover them though.

Mine roosted together, seemed very friendly with each other, did not physically over mate or attack the hens...you would have said it was working fine. But it worked a whole lot better, when one of them was gone.

Mrs K

 

[zayd762]

Mrs K, good to know. I suppose it is all relative, and things could certainly get much better without the troublemaker.

Well, just as I was settling into the idea of keeping the Australorp, he went after my youngest daughter (6yo) today and pecked her. I’m not sure what prompted it, if anything, but I know she likes to pick up the ladies and cuddle with them. He likely didn’t take kindly to that.

Aggression towards the kiddos is a red line. I’m worried that a peck today will turn into a slash tomorrow when the spurs come in. At the same time, I’m still possibly open to letting them grow up a little more and settle into their permanent behaviors.

 

[FrostRanger]

If you have children that young, I'd reconsider keeping either cockerel. If either turns out to be human aggressive, they'll go after your children first. Wait until your children are a bit older and then try again

 

[Ridgerunner]

he went after my youngest daughter (6yo) today and pecked her. I’m not sure what prompted it, if anything, but I know she likes to pick up the ladies and cuddle with them. He likely didn’t take kindly to that.

Aggression towards the kiddos is a red line.

There was a thread on here a few years ago where a man had a very peaceful flock of a rooster and a few hens. The rooster was great around the family and the hens. Then one day that rooster started attacking his 5-year-old son. Even if that kid was a long way off the rooster would go after him. No one else, just that boy.

It turned out that boy was chasing the hens. The father thought that was really cute but the rooster thought the boy was endangering his hens. As a good rooster should, he defended his hens. What had been a great situation was now intolerable, that rooster had to go as he was endangering the boy.

It sounds like something similar happened to you. I agree, he crossed a red line and has to go. Hopefully your GLW will step up.

When I need to inspect a hen that is with the flock the first thing I try to do is lock the rooster up so he cannot see what I'm doing. I can't always do that but so far none have attacked me for handling the hens. I try to avoid those situations.