- Jan 21, 2013
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Dan- I like the way you're thinking!...... I never thought of it like that before......the complementary colors. Nice.
Iowa Blues - Breed thread and discussion
- Thread starter Hurley
- Start date
Dan- I like the way you're thinking!...... I never thought of it like that before......the complementary colors. Nice.
- Jan 21, 2013
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GREAT NEWS! I had my first pullet eggs from my Kari line Silver Penciled Iowa Blues yesterday! Who hoo! This little lady is surprisingly only 4 months and 3 weeks old! I have read that early layers tend to lay smaller eggs and tend to be smaller bodied birds....so this is bittersweet. It's nice to have the egg, but I would like her a little bigger in size.....oh well. 
I bought a chicken genetics book the other day, it's some 600 pages long. It was written in the 1940's and has some pretty interesting stuff inside. I was reading the other day about sire size in chickens and the effect it has on his offspring. Some extensive tests were done at one of the colleges and they segregated the cockbirds into three different classes. Small, Medium, and Large (They were using RIRs in this study, both cockbirds and the hens that they were bred to). Anyway, they found that the smaller cockbirds produced the smallest offspring (both male and female), regardless of the hen size, and in fact did not produce a cockerel that matured as a cockbird into the medium class. The Medium sized cockbirds produced average sized offspring (male & female), and the Large cockbirds produced the largest offspring, both in cockbirds and hens.
I had heard before in many different situations, that when breeding, one should select for size using the cockbird and select for color using the hen. Seems, this was sound advice based on the data from this extensive study.
I bought a chicken genetics book the other day, it's some 600 pages long. It was written in the 1940's and has some pretty interesting stuff inside. I was reading the other day about sire size in chickens and the effect it has on his offspring. Some extensive tests were done at one of the colleges and they segregated the cockbirds into three different classes. Small, Medium, and Large (They were using RIRs in this study, both cockbirds and the hens that they were bred to). Anyway, they found that the smaller cockbirds produced the smallest offspring (both male and female), regardless of the hen size, and in fact did not produce a cockerel that matured as a cockbird into the medium class. The Medium sized cockbirds produced average sized offspring (male & female), and the Large cockbirds produced the largest offspring, both in cockbirds and hens.
I had heard before in many different situations, that when breeding, one should select for size using the cockbird and select for color using the hen. Seems, this was sound advice based on the data from this extensive study.
Hi Curt,
Congrats on your first egg!
My three pullets from Kari's line started laying all at about the same age as yours. The eggs are small at first, but wait about a month and I think you will see that they are about 50% larger but still generally small. Connie has pullet eggs in the 'bator, and I am about to set 15 or so under a broody. As Kari says, what's the worst that can happen? You can hatch chicks from pullet eggs, although expect them to be smaller than usual, so I am told. I don't have a lot of experience, but this is generally the info I've gleaned from talking with other breeders.
Congrats on your first egg!
My three pullets from Kari's line started laying all at about the same age as yours. The eggs are small at first, but wait about a month and I think you will see that they are about 50% larger but still generally small. Connie has pullet eggs in the 'bator, and I am about to set 15 or so under a broody. As Kari says, what's the worst that can happen? You can hatch chicks from pullet eggs, although expect them to be smaller than usual, so I am told. I don't have a lot of experience, but this is generally the info I've gleaned from talking with other breeders.
- Jan 21, 2013
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Oh, no worries, I plan on setting them! I was quite decided awhile ago that I wasn't going to hatch out any more chicks from July till early next spring..........but then I got some more eggs from Kari (that are due this saturday) and now my pullet is starting to lay and I'm sure the other one will be soon as well........and, well, you get the picture! hahaha
Great news with all the hatching! I just heard back from a couple of folks I sent eggs to and they both had great hatches too. So now there are more Iowa Blues in CA and TN
I'll candle tonight and see how my SP pen is doing on fertility.
- Jan 21, 2013
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Exciting news Kari! Keep us posted on how they are doing!
Curt using sire size to increase growthiness is a long time animal breeding program. In many species, and using the dam for maternal traits, and longevity.
Early laying pullets are doing so as they have almost reached maturity, so, they have begun to reach their final size. So selecting for early laying also is selecting for smaller mature size, if you want good growth on the hens too then you have to select pullets for the flock from later maturing pullets. Its all tradeoffs. Those pullets that are the first to lay will also be among the smallest hens. Bred to the largest roosters the offspring size should average out.
I will almost always select roosters that are the largest of their siblings, other things being acceptable, especially temperament as it has the highest breeding coefficient of all traits.
From all I am seeing this season the Iowa Blue has a really bright future !
My little flock is growing, and all are about to move from the outside brooder to the growing pen.
Early laying pullets are doing so as they have almost reached maturity, so, they have begun to reach their final size. So selecting for early laying also is selecting for smaller mature size, if you want good growth on the hens too then you have to select pullets for the flock from later maturing pullets. Its all tradeoffs. Those pullets that are the first to lay will also be among the smallest hens. Bred to the largest roosters the offspring size should average out.
I will almost always select roosters that are the largest of their siblings, other things being acceptable, especially temperament as it has the highest breeding coefficient of all traits.
From all I am seeing this season the Iowa Blue has a really bright future !
My little flock is growing, and all are about to move from the outside brooder to the growing pen.
- Thread starter
- #1,598
The NIPA has updated their site for the fall show. They have offered us a prime spot at the show if we bring a nice display, to showcase the breed. Bart said if we wanted to decorate, have brochures, etc. that we were welcome to. Let's make it a good one!
Fall Expo 2013
Additional meets:
Plymouth Rock Fanciers Club 1 and 2 Special Meets
Cochin International Club 1 State Meet and 2 Special Meet
Judges:
Art Reiber – IA
John Monaco – CA
Paul Lacey – WI
Don Karasek – WI
For questions contact:
Bart Pals, 146 Brook Terrace, Mason City, IA 50401
641-424-3709, [email protected]
Directions
The main fairground entrance is located directly west of Target on the frontage road to the north side of Hwy 122/US 18.
If approaching Mason City from I-35 take Exit 194 and head east on IA-122/US-18. You will pass one stoplight near Best Buy and a second stop light near Wal Mart. After the second stoplight you will need to take the first turn left (north) onto a frontage road that leads to directly to the main entrance of the fairgrounds.
View Larger Map
If approaching Mason City on US-18 take Exit 183 (Eisenhouer Ave.) north. You will encounter two stoplights. At the second stoplight (near Wal Mart) turn right onto US-122. Immediately get into the left lane and take the first turn left (north) onto a frontage road that leads to directly to the main entrance of the fairgrounds.
View Larger Map
NIPA Annual Fall Expo 2013
Two Shows – One Weekend
Bantams – Large Fowl – Bantam Ducks
September 20th and 21st at the North Iowa Fair Grounds in Mason City, IA
Shopping within walking distance of event.
!!! ENTRIES DUE SEPTEMBER 6th, 2013 !!!
Show setup will be Wed. Sept. 18th at 8AM. Any help will be appreciated.
Both shows are APA/ABA special meets.
Additional meets:
Plymouth Rock Fanciers Club 1 and 2 Special Meets
Cochin International Club 1 State Meet and 2 Special Meet
Judges:
Art Reiber – IA
John Monaco – CA
Paul Lacey – WI
Don Karasek – WI
Show Headquarters
Days Inn – Mason City, 641-424-0210
Reserve early. It is a busy time in Mason City and rooms will be in short supply!
For questions contact:
Bart Pals, 146 Brook Terrace, Mason City, IA 50401
641-424-3709, [email protected]
Directions
The main fairground entrance is located directly west of Target on the frontage road to the north side of Hwy 122/US 18.
If approaching Mason City from I-35 take Exit 194 and head east on IA-122/US-18. You will pass one stoplight near Best Buy and a second stop light near Wal Mart. After the second stoplight you will need to take the first turn left (north) onto a frontage road that leads to directly to the main entrance of the fairgrounds.
View Larger Map
If approaching Mason City on US-18 take Exit 183 (Eisenhouer Ave.) north. You will encounter two stoplights. At the second stoplight (near Wal Mart) turn right onto US-122. Immediately get into the left lane and take the first turn left (north) onto a frontage road that leads to directly to the main entrance of the fairgrounds.
View Larger Map
Recent News
ABA & APA Info
Other Poultry Resources
For more information contact:
Bart Pals
641-424-3709
[email protected]
ABA & APA Info
Other Poultry Resources
For more information contact:
Bart Pals
641-424-3709
[email protected]
© 2012 NIPA Image Credits
- Jan 21, 2013
- 597
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I was reading out of my new genetics book again last night and came across some interesting things in regards to leg color. Hopefully everything will make sense by the time I'm done! haha
I will only cover the genetics that would pertain to our birds as there is a lot more that really isn't of interest to the breed. Here goes-
Shank and toe coloration is determined by two things. The epidermal (outside skin layer) pigmentation/lack of pigmentation and the dermal (inner skin layer) pigmentation/lack of pigmentation. In the case of our birds, white skinned birds would lack the epidermal pigmentation and the yellow skinned birds would have pigmentation (it's the pigmentation that creates a yellow skin). Still with me?
Blue-Slate colored legs would be produced by a white skinned bird having dermal pigmentation (the white skin covering the black pigmentation of the dermal layer)
Black legged birds (which don't happen all that often) would be produced by having a black/dark skinned bird with dermal pigmentation
Yellow legged birds would be produced by a yellow skinned bird having no dermal pigmentation
Willow legged birds would be produced by a yellow skinned bird having dermal pigmentation (the yellow skin covering the black pigmentation of the dermal layer)
Now, that is simple enough, but there is a little bit of a wrench that gets thrown in. The gene that is responsible for producing dermal pigmentation (and is therefore needed to produce the willow coloration in our standard) is a sex-link recessive gene, that in a homozygous expression in the male, and heterozygous expression in the female, inhibits the genes that inhibit dermal coloration. Kind of like a double negative is a positive...
In studies conducted in 1914. Yellow legs cockbirds were bred to Willow legged hens. All the offspring were born with willow legs. However by the time the birds reached the half way point to adulthood, the males had yellow legs and the pullets had willow legs. The males need two of the sex-linked recessive gene to express willow legs, the hens only one. If the male has one gene for sex-link recessive, it is not enough to inhibit the gene that inhibits dermal pigmentation and therefore he will have yellow legs even though he carried the gene for producing willow colored offspring.
All of this in VERY interesting to our breed in three different ways-
1) Those who have obtained stock from Glenn Drowns will notice the birds having blue-slate colored legs as this is what he was breeding for. What we need to understand is that white skin is dominant to yellow skin. So, when breeding Sandhill birds which have blue legs to birds with willow legs (like Kari's flock), the offspring will have blue legs, unless of course there are some hidden recessived for yellow skinned birds in Glenn's breeding pens.
2) Kari bred some of her Iowa Blue pullets to a Silver Penciled Rock cockbird. When the offspring reached maturity, most if not all the males had yellow legs, and the females had willow legs. So it seems that in our own experiences, we can confirm the results of the 1914 study on the sex-linked recessive traits of dermal pigmentation.
3) Every now and then I hatch a purebred cockerel from Kari's eggs that develops into a yellow legged bird. This can now be understood because Ideal had introduced the leghorn (which have yellow legs) into the breeding and if the cockerel doesnt' get two copies of the sex-link recessive gene, then he will not have willow legs. The nice thing about these fellas though, is that if he excells in other areas of type and weight, one can breed him to willow legged pullets and all the pullets will have willow legs, and half of his sons will have willow legs as well. This is due to the fact that he has a recessive gene for dermal pigmentation hidden under the yellow that is coming out. Rocks (like the Silver Penciled Rock Kari used) would have no genes for dermal pigmentation and therefore all of the sons would be yellow legged.
Does that make sense? I hope so, as it has given us greater options for breeding so long as we know how to use the genes to our advantage!!!
I will only cover the genetics that would pertain to our birds as there is a lot more that really isn't of interest to the breed. Here goes-
Shank and toe coloration is determined by two things. The epidermal (outside skin layer) pigmentation/lack of pigmentation and the dermal (inner skin layer) pigmentation/lack of pigmentation. In the case of our birds, white skinned birds would lack the epidermal pigmentation and the yellow skinned birds would have pigmentation (it's the pigmentation that creates a yellow skin). Still with me?
Blue-Slate colored legs would be produced by a white skinned bird having dermal pigmentation (the white skin covering the black pigmentation of the dermal layer)
Black legged birds (which don't happen all that often) would be produced by having a black/dark skinned bird with dermal pigmentation
Yellow legged birds would be produced by a yellow skinned bird having no dermal pigmentation
Willow legged birds would be produced by a yellow skinned bird having dermal pigmentation (the yellow skin covering the black pigmentation of the dermal layer)
Now, that is simple enough, but there is a little bit of a wrench that gets thrown in. The gene that is responsible for producing dermal pigmentation (and is therefore needed to produce the willow coloration in our standard) is a sex-link recessive gene, that in a homozygous expression in the male, and heterozygous expression in the female, inhibits the genes that inhibit dermal coloration. Kind of like a double negative is a positive...
In studies conducted in 1914. Yellow legs cockbirds were bred to Willow legged hens. All the offspring were born with willow legs. However by the time the birds reached the half way point to adulthood, the males had yellow legs and the pullets had willow legs. The males need two of the sex-linked recessive gene to express willow legs, the hens only one. If the male has one gene for sex-link recessive, it is not enough to inhibit the gene that inhibits dermal pigmentation and therefore he will have yellow legs even though he carried the gene for producing willow colored offspring.
All of this in VERY interesting to our breed in three different ways-
1) Those who have obtained stock from Glenn Drowns will notice the birds having blue-slate colored legs as this is what he was breeding for. What we need to understand is that white skin is dominant to yellow skin. So, when breeding Sandhill birds which have blue legs to birds with willow legs (like Kari's flock), the offspring will have blue legs, unless of course there are some hidden recessived for yellow skinned birds in Glenn's breeding pens.
2) Kari bred some of her Iowa Blue pullets to a Silver Penciled Rock cockbird. When the offspring reached maturity, most if not all the males had yellow legs, and the females had willow legs. So it seems that in our own experiences, we can confirm the results of the 1914 study on the sex-linked recessive traits of dermal pigmentation.
3) Every now and then I hatch a purebred cockerel from Kari's eggs that develops into a yellow legged bird. This can now be understood because Ideal had introduced the leghorn (which have yellow legs) into the breeding and if the cockerel doesnt' get two copies of the sex-link recessive gene, then he will not have willow legs. The nice thing about these fellas though, is that if he excells in other areas of type and weight, one can breed him to willow legged pullets and all the pullets will have willow legs, and half of his sons will have willow legs as well. This is due to the fact that he has a recessive gene for dermal pigmentation hidden under the yellow that is coming out. Rocks (like the Silver Penciled Rock Kari used) would have no genes for dermal pigmentation and therefore all of the sons would be yellow legged.
Does that make sense? I hope so, as it has given us greater options for breeding so long as we know how to use the genes to our advantage!!!
That is an excellent explanation Curt! This is exactly right. What I have been wondering is if the eye color is linked to that as well. It seems with my birds the lighter the legs, the lighter the eyes. Is anyone else noticing anything similar?
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