Iowa Blues - Breed thread and discussion

[Jake Levi]

I prefer to keep this thread for all, few of us have all of one color type, and, my youngsters that were so differently colored are now showing more common feathering. They will still be different, but they will have a lot fo common looks too.

Re the different colors, until we know a lot more about the colors I think that we should maintain as much flexibility as possible. Breed towards the original, and strengthen what we have.

 

[IowaBlueCurt]

Maybe a compromise of thoughts would look like these three "Silver Birchen Pekins" from Australia. They call their Cochins Pekins over there and their whiter version of Grey a Silver Birchen.......












These birds resemble closer the original the darker version of the original type. However, I don't think this coloration is possible with our current stock. We'd have to bring something in from the outside to aid in achieving this color I think, and then we'd be missing the point........ I get kind of torn by a topic like this. In all reality, when I'm dead this "debate" over the coloration will not matter, but the flip side is this, what am I leaving behind for others to experience...........oh the dilema

 

[IowaBlueCurt]

Re the different colors, until we know a lot more about the colors I think that we should maintain as much flexibility as possible. Breed towards the original, and strengthen what we have.

Regarding your post, that's why we're having this conversation as we aren't (according to our Standard) breeding towards all the origianl types. We're breeding for one of them, and we've included another that is not part of that original genepool.

While I'm not a hardcore "purist" I do lean heavily in that direction. I would like to see the club breed for the original types first before we'd push another type that wasn't original. We have that opportunity now, it's just whether we all want to head in that direction or not...... The re-emergence of the different colored chicks and their development into birds that resemble closer the Silver Penciled than the Birchen causes me to question if we're making the right choices. It makes it hard for me to give 100% support to the Birchen coloration or even the share the club's support of the variety until we know for certain that the all the original types are accepted by the club, have a standard within the club, and have the support of breeders. The Birchen can be "guided" into the Grey pattern and we wouldn't have to worry about the loss of their genetics and I would like to see the club either transition them into the traditional Iowa Blue Grey pattern or put the Birchen somewhat on the back burner (this would include shows) until the origianl types have a secure footing within the club, the breeding pens, and the showroom.
(Shoot, these comments probably just labeled me a purist.........

I'm really open to bringing in outside blood to breeds, but I guess, I do think it's best to see any outside blood being conformed to the original type....so maybe that does make me a purist?)

I understand there are breeders who probably feel the very opposite in opinion from myself, so please share your thoughts so we can come together on how to move forward as we grow this breed.

 

[Hurley]

http://the-coop.org/poultrygenetics/index.php?title=Dusky - Hey, check this out. Scroll down to the darker chick and 1st and 3rd adult pics. Look familiar?





On the color variety front:

Personally, this coloration/appearance is what I'm working towards with the birchens I'm keeping. It's going to take a while to get there, but with the variability in our genetics in this breed and the tremendous amount of progress seen in just a few generations, I think it's possible to get there without added blood. I am not against adding blood to improve the breed, as far as I'm concerned if it walks, eats, poops, quacks, and looks like a duck, it's a duck and there is no such thing as "pure", that's a line in shifting sands. All life is in transition at all times. However, it's harder to hold to type when outcrossing. I'd like to see where I can get with the IBs I have, and I plan to dabble with some crosses separately.

As to my opinion on where I'd like to see the club go, I think if we try to take on too many varieties, it'll spread us too thin and we'll never get anywhere. I'm not saying eliminate the different varieties, but we need to pull focus on one or two for the APA. That doesn't mean the IBCC can't name/endorse more than that, but for the APA we really need to pick one or two and push them hard. As to the IBCC recognized color varieties, personally I'd like to see us go to Silver Penciled, Gray (or Silver Birchen...though that's a bit of a misnomer since the traditional color variety "Birchen" implies a silver birchen, with "Gold Birchen" applied to the straight up wild type birchen), and Silver Gray for the duckwings.

That's my personal wishes. Obviously I don't expect anyone else to 1000% agree, but just wanted to put my opinion out there. It's a great place and time for discussing and seeing where we want to go as a club.

 

[IowaBlueCurt]

I like the idea very much of just the three varieties as well. Silver Penciled, Grey, and Silver Grey. I don't think we need more and I don't believe the original type exhibited any more than that. I would like to see more white allowed and stippling permitted on parts of the Grey standard though. Maybe not quite so "black".....but just an opinion. But overall, yes, I like where you're going with it Connie. I personally don't want to add (at least at this time) any other varieties than the three that you listed. They would keep to a traditional type and color and not overload us with too many varieties.

 

[IowaBlueCurt]

Oh, and I don't really get the whole Silver Birchen thing either.........must be an Australian thing... haha

 

[karimw]

Well Curt, I respect your desire to resurrect the Iowa Blue to the original, but early on in our Committee meetings we decided we had to include the current type because that is what most of the birds out there are going to be. This means including the black chicks. The birds that turn into dark morphs of the SP variety were not born black like 95% of the "Iowa Blues" currently are.

One of the things I have learned this year, is the more I keep my line progressing, the more odd birds crop up out of it. We still don't really know what we have. And in my opinion, neither did the original hatchery breeders.

Now we as breeders can keep back the 1-2 odd colored chicks and try to build a variety out of them, but remember you have to have 5 breeders raising them for 5 years to be eligible to apply to the APA for admission. The breeder affidavits are due before the process can begin.

 

[IowaBlueCurt]

I'm not advocating keeping odd colored chicks and developing varieties from them, what I am advocating is developing the three known varities based on our historical accounts.

Brown Mottled chicks develop into Silver Penciled

Pheasant chicks develop into Silver Grey/Duckwing

Choc, Mulberry, Smokey Blue-Black, Smokey Brown-Black develop into a Darker version of the Silver Penciled resembling a lighter coloration of the Grey standard.

In our Standard Commitee meetings we were split 4 in favor of keeping the Birchen, 3 in favor of leaving it behind. While it wasn't close to unanimous, majority rule decided a pass or not pass on each subject. If I recall correctly, this was the one issue that was the most divisive of each of our votes. At the time, the colorations of the choc, mulberry, smokeys hadn't existed for years if not decades. This made it easier to accept a Birchen colored bird (and therefore a black chick) in their place. Now that they are here and they are developing into exactly what the historical accounts of them declared they would, it seems now is the perfect time to direct our attention to these three colorations as our main focus. And I believe this is the perfect time to transition the entirety of the breed into its original form and not a form that was handed down to us from a hatchery.

 

[IowaBlueCurt]

http://the-coop.org/poultrygenetics/index.php?title=Dusky - Hey, check this out. Scroll down to the darker chick and 1st and 3rd adult pics. Look familiar?

Could this explain the heavy melanizers on the heads of our Birchen hens?

 

[karimw]

But the smutty brownish black bird is not pretty to look at. If nothing else, they need to be pretty, Clean up the brown and these birds will be lovely