Iowa Blues - Breed thread and discussion

[Hurley]

Agreed on the size, definitely an area to improve. I will say with each generation that my birds have increased in size. Selection will move this up over time, along with good feeding and care.

 

[karimw]

Connie, you and I are really on the same page with this and you have such a nice way of saying things

I really feel like we went all out earlier this year and solidified a good standard to breed toward. I hate the thought of rewriting and starting all over again. I think changing the name from Birchen to Gray (Grey?) is a good idea because Birchen is such a well known color variety. Gray offers us the latitude to breed for more lacing as the SOP we designed calls for.

I don't think we need to outcross to clean up the lacing. Yes, my Iowa Blue Rock crosses have lovely penciling, but I'm seeing improvement in the pure Iowa Blues too. It may never be perfect, but our standard does not call for that

 

[WVDan44]

Connie, you and I are really on the same page with this and you have such a nice way of saying things

I really feel like we went all out earlier this year and solidified a good standard to breed toward. I hate the thought of rewriting and starting all over again. I think changing the name from Birchen to Gray (Grey?) is a good idea because Birchen is such a well known color variety. Gray offers us the latitude to breed for more lacing as the SOP we designed calls for.

I don't think we need to outcross to clean up the lacing. Yes, my Iowa Blue Rock crosses have lovely penciling, but I'm seeing improvement in the pure Iowa Blues too. It may never be perfect, but our standard does not call for that

I'm glad to have just read this post Kari, right after I went back a couple of pages and read your previous one. Now I feel that I know where you stand on this.

Growing pains, or baby steps...whatever you want to call it, I think we are making progress. So I've been flopping like a fish out of water, but I am back full circle to saying keep the bird, change the name of the color, clean up the pattern/color as best we can.

 

[IowaBlueCurt]

Good Afternoon!
This recent conversation concerning the direction of our breed, and particularly how our Standard is going to reflect the desired look of our breed, has been a great conversation and has been very informative.
As I listen to the discussion, I hear a lot of enthusiasm and excitement from breeders all across this country as they weigh in on what they envision the Iowa Blue to be. I hear an overwhelming support for the Standard as it is currently written, and a vision to see the Iowa Blue refined into a breed worthy of the praise it will surely receive in the showring.
Like many others, this breed is near and dear in my affection and praise. I have had high hopes for over 15 years to see the Iowa Blue restored to its original type, form, and function. Upon joining the IBCC and getting active with the Standard Committee it was exciting to be part of such a monumental experience, and it has been just that. I have had fantastic opportunities to communicate with Iowa Blue breeders from the past as well as the present and as I learn more about the breed and particularly the future evolution envisioned for the breed, I feel my race has been run.
As we’ve been discussing the reasons why we were attracted to the Iowa Blue, many of us shared a similar bond. We enjoy the personality, the hawk fighting spirit, the individualism each birds seems to possess and respect about themselves, their catchy name, unique history, and the list goes on. But in one key area do I find myself differing from others, I was deeply drawn by this breed because it was a native breed (the only native Iowa breed) that was losing its identity. I had seen living examples of purebred Iowa Blues and they were beautiful creatures. I wanted to do what I could to see the traditional type preserved for generations after me to enjoy. I wanted my children to be able to enjoy them, and my children’s children to be able to experience their uniqueness and beauty.
I am now confident that I will be able to do that for my children and their children, but I am not confident that the Standards and they are proposed (and as the majority would like to see them proceed), will reflect the traditional beauty of this breed. I am concerned that the show birds of our future will share little the qualities that distinguished the traditional Iowa Blue. And these same show birds will be become the shining examples of the breed’s new identity.
As the breed club grows and evolves, hard decisions will need to be made and this decision (to restore or re-define) will probably be the most difficult to make, albeit, not the last challenge the club will face. When listening to the dialog, I hear a strong and dedicated desire to produce a bird that will exemplify characteristics that didn’t exist in the traditional bird and that is something I cannot conform my breeding pens or breeding philosophy to reflect.
A breed club has as its first priority to maintain the breed as represented in the Standard, but what happens when the Standard doesn’t represent the breed? As we’ve been raising birds in larger numbers it is becoming clearer that our Standard is not designed to restore the breed but to re-define what the breed will become. In keeping with my original desire to raise the Iowa Blue, I find that restoring and breeding a traditional bird will place my flock largely outside the designated and re-defined breed characteristics as put forth in the Standard. With this in mind, I believe it best to take a very passive role within the Iowa Blue Chicken Club and will divert my energy and support to breeding and restoring the traditional Iowa Blue.
Please do not take my limited support for the club or its direction as a schism or fracture, but rather, a point where I have reached the limits of my breed philosophy as the club travels away from restoration and on to modern development. It is better for the breed that I slip away now than to continue to champion an idea or breed philosophy that only maintains discord. Once a breed or club philosophy no longer accommodates, facilitates, or supports one’s desires for raising that breed within its Standard, it begins to negate the reason for the breed or the club to that particular individual.
This has been a fun journey and I have made many new friends! I have a profound respect for each and every member of this club as well as their thoughts and opinions when it comes to the future of this breed. Just like me, we all have put in many hours of work and dedication to this breed. We all have some portion of “skin in the game” and that’s just what this breed needs if it is to continue.
I wish this club and its breeders all the best as you work toward the goals and the direction that you’ve envisioned the Iowa Blue to be!

Best,
Curt

 

[Jake Levi]

Hi Curt

Would you post some pics of the birds that you know of the traditional Iowa Blue? Several, male and females, and discuss where they differ from the standard? Maybe with some examples ?

From photos posted the last few days I see quite a variety in coloration, and some other characteristics. As I understand it, the majority here see the breed as in a flux with various morphs still quantifiable. So, lets discuss what you see as the Traditional, and where it is different from the various paths you see being taken.

I personally enjoy your input, and I dont see us abandoning any Traditional morph, frankly I amnot positive that we have one single Traditional Iowa Blue, but rather a number of expressions of them.

So would you show me what you know as the Traditional Iowa Blue, and where we seem to be getting away from it?

I am also thinking that as we go down the road we will see several types. Just as in other breeds we see even several types.

Dan I see a lot of similarity to the Icelandics in some traits, size being one, in a way I think that could have been being a homestead breed and doing a lot of ranging for the sustenence. Also, and this is reaching, if, there had actually been a pheasant in the origin that would acccount for a smaller size. Whatever, a larger bird can be had through selecting larger roosters for breeding.

I currently have an Icelandic, son of my Isis that looks just like him, but it at least a pound heavier, he will get some use before he leaves, and I wont be using any smaller statured roosters. Over time my flock will increase in size from what I have now.

Fascinating thread folks, keep the input coming.

 

[ottbjumper06]

I was drawn to the breed for many of the same reasons you all were. What I love is that it's a Iowa Blue, not a Texas Blue or a Minnesota Blue. I would love to see pics of a traditional Iowa Blue.

 

[pebblesdolly]

I have an Iowa blue hen and she's VERY flighty, and acts like a rooster, weird!!!! I'm not fond of her, although when the sunlight hits her feathers just right you can see the blue in her feathers, otherwise she looks black with white highlights around her neck.

 

[ottbjumper06]

Lol, they sure do have attitude! Where did you get her from? It sounds like you're describing a Birchen (Gray)

 

[debs_flock]

What attracted you to the breed?
Good to take a minute and consider this.

I participated in an egg swap and Jim Heinz included one Iowa Blue egg in the batch of eggs he sent to me. That one egg hatched and it was a cockerel. My plan was to just put the bird into the freezer when he grew out, what was I going to do with one male non-APA bird. I would have to use up a whole run/coop!

My husband lets the birds out of their coops in the morning. This one cockerel was living in with my silver campines that were too young to breed yet anyway. When I told him my plan to butcher this one bird, he said I couldn't do it, it was his favorite bird. Each morning when he opened the pop door, he was the first bird out. He would fly from the door to the roost in the pen, stand up tall and crow to the morning.

That is what sent me on my quest to find pullets (and of course lots of additional cockerels). The pen of IBs is now one of my favorites as well (not to mention two pens of youngsters growing out)!

So I guess for me, it was the bearing of the breed.

 

[Hurley]

I wanted to do what I could to see the traditional type preserved for generations after me to enjoy. I wanted my children to be able to enjoy them, and my children’s children to be able to experience their uniqueness and beauty.
I am now confident that I will be able to do that for my children and their children, but I am not confident that the Standards and they are proposed (and as the majority would like to see them proceed), will reflect the traditional beauty of this breed. I am concerned that the show birds of our future will share little the qualities that distinguished the traditional Iowa Blue. And these same show birds will be become the shining examples of the breed’s new identity.
As the breed club grows and evolves, hard decisions will need to be made and this decision (to restore or re-define) will probably be the most difficult to make, albeit, not the last challenge the club will face. When listening to the dialog, I hear a strong and dedicated desire to produce a bird that will exemplify characteristics that didn’t exist in the traditional bird and that is something I cannot conform my breeding pens or breeding philosophy to reflect.
A breed club has as its first priority to maintain the breed as represented in the Standard, but what happens when the Standard doesn’t represent the breed? As we’ve been raising birds in larger numbers it is becoming clearer that our Standard is not designed to restore the breed but to re-define what the breed will become. In keeping with my original desire to raise the Iowa Blue, I find that restoring and breeding a traditional bird will place my flock largely outside the designated and re-defined breed characteristics as put forth in the Standard. With this in mind, I believe it best to take a very passive role within the Iowa Blue Chicken Club and will divert my energy and support to breeding and restoring the traditional Iowa Blue.

As I read through this, I admit I'm hard pressed to pick out where the standard as written (which we all agreed on at the time that we were trying to describe what we thought was original Iowa Blue type) varies so much from the original that it somehow is describing another breed or redefining the breed. To me, it shows enough latitude to encompass everything from traditional to more modern and anywhere in between, allowing the breeder to take the avenue they prefer.

As far as I can tell, the short summary of the last several pages is keep the standard as written, changing just the name Birchen to Gray as it is more representative and likely pushes us more towards the orginal breed type of heavier lacing than what we were previously seeing the majority of in the birds available. We agreed that Silver Penciled isn't exact, but it's as close as anything to the light gray Iowa Blue, certainly they are as close to penciled as they are to mealy gray, which has no penciling, just uniform mealy pattern. From what I can tell the original light gray IB looked intermediate between the two types, more or less, so it's a coin flip which you go with and the standard as written for SP alters the SP traditional standard to reflect that intermediate appearance. I think the original birds were prettier than mealy gray, showing some mildly disorganized penciled pattern. As for the other chick colors and their adult appearance, this is an area that bears exploration as there are too few numbers to make any determinations, yet.

Have you changed your mind from what we discussed when comprising the standard and decided we missed something?


I personally don't envision the club to only represent the show bird...or only represent the (what is perceived to be) original bird. What I would hope for in the club is for each member who wants to contribute to work hard on the area they are most interested in with all the passion they have for the breed. If your passion is showing, then by all means, promote and dedicate time in that regard. If your passion is history, breed characteristics, origins of pattern/appearance, then put your best efforts into the public education in that regard. There is plenty of room at the table for more than one approach, one opinion, one viewpoint.

As has been stated, standards aren't necessary to breed for what you want in a breed, nor is anyone required to breed towards a standard. It is meant as a guideline towards uniformity, as a compilation of what the standards committee envisioned as the perfect Iowa Blue with the knowledge we had, and to give an ideal to hold a bird up to when selecting to type. The standard is a necessary evil for APA acceptance (which has its benefits and its detriments), but that is only one facet of focus for the club. As for the varieities selected at this time for a written standard, they represent the types with the highest numbers and most popularly found, thus far. If other varieties come to popularity, they will be """officially""" represented as well.

I guess I just don't see where the standard suddenly became a redefinition of the breed. It was never written with that intent, we were all there and were trying our darndest to describe the original bird, writing a standard with enough leeway to get us from here to that goal. I can see where concern may be raised that the breed's appearance may change over time based on the breeders who will be selecting the next generations, but that happens with any living thing where selection pressure is applied, in the wild or captivity. No animal or species is ever static, it's always in flux. Unless you control all birds everywhere, they will trend towards the wishes of those that have them and divergence (lines) will occur. It's the ultimate democracy. The birds that garner the most favor from future generations will increase in numbers and that is what will pass into the future generations. The best that we (each of us) as breeders can hope for is that we work to our internal definition of perfection, educate and inform to generate interest, and expand the population. At least in the meantime we have our own darn nice flocks. The important features of the breed will vary based on each breeder's opinion, but the beauty is that we are all able to work on the aspects we desire and the combined effort works to keep the breed from being lost for good.

Will some lines lose certain characteristics and gain others? Undoubtedly, has been that way, will be that way. That's evolution and life. The club stands as a central meeting place for everyone to discuss ideas, find other breeders with similar standards, communicate, educate, promote.