Is it impacted crop if it's not hard?

[K0k0shka]

I have a 6-month-old Wyandotte with crop issues I can't quite diagnose. Tuesday late afternoon I noticed she was self isolating in a corner of the run, didn't seem interested in regular chicken affairs, or in food. She was doing a lot of crop adjustments and upon examination, I found that her crop was huge and very full, though soft and pliable. I put her in a crate in the coop with just water. By the following morning, her crop had not emptied, so I left her in the crate with just water for the rest of the day and overnight. By the following morning, her crop was noticeably smaller and emptier, though still not completely empty. The pullet was finally in a good mood, active, talkative and very hungry. She had only produced one small poop since crated. She was eager to come out of the crate, but I didn't want to give her food yet since her crop was still not empty (though improving!), so I decided to compromise and took her out to a partition of the run, so she could stretch her legs and see her friends. Still only water, no food. I went to see her mid-day and to bring her some scrambled egg. I had been massaging her crop periodically, so I gave her another massage and noticed a lot of what felt like debris in her crop - no longer smooth, I could feel grain-size particles, short shreds of material, etc. It's been weeks since I gave the chickens any scratch as a treat, so it couldn't be grain. And then it dawned on me - she was out in the run, hungry, and probably ate a bunch of debris from the ground! (my run is a cold compost of wood chips, dry leaves, grass clippings etc.) So I gave her half a scrambled egg and put her back in the crate, but removed the bedding from the crate (pine shavings) so she doesn't eat that. That was yesterday. This morning she was in good spirits again, active and talkative and very hungry, and almost all of the debris was gone from her crop, but the crop was STILL not fully empty, and no poop in the crate. Her crop is very soft, loose and pliable, it just seems larger than any of her peers' (or the adults, for that matter), and floppy, and still doesn't seem completely empty.

So my question is, could it be impacted if it was never hard? If the debris from yesterday has mostly moved out, I'm guessing it's not impacted? There is no smell, so probably not sour crop? Maybe it got distended and now isn't shrinking back? Does it ever shrink back once distended? What do you think? What would you do? After the morning check today, I gave her another half a scrambled egg and left her in the bedding-less crate with just water...

The pictures are from the first day, when her crop was enlarged. She's standing on an elevated wooden platform here, that's not the run floor.

 

[coach723]

Sometimes when a bird has a crop issue and stays stretched out, it can be permanent and is called pendulous crop. The muscle stretches out, and usually doesn't ever return to it's original condition. That can make it hard for the contents to empty out properly. Sometimes it's caused by a back up somewhere that doesn't let the crop empty, or it can happen to a bird that just stuffs their crop very full all the time. So I would try a crop bra and see if it helps. Some links below. They can be hard to get fitted properly, so be patient and readjust as many times as needed until you get it right. Some birds don't take to them well, she may walk backwards and fall over until she accepts it, so separate her and monitor until all is well. If there is contents in the crop then you will need to put it on a bit looser to start with, so you don't force crop contents back up, then as the crop empties you can tighten it up more to support the crop better.
Long fiberous things are very hard for them to pass, eating a lot of long grass can cause impactions. Does she have access to poultry grit all the time? My birds semi free range, but the grass is kept mowed pretty regular for that reason, and the pasture is grazed so not a lot of long stuff for mine to eat. Another cause for backups can be worms. A heavy load of internal parasites can cause slow or stopped crops sometimes.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...ntion-and-treatments-of-crop-disorders.67194/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/
This is one of my hens that had pendulous crop, and the crop bra I made. I found it fit better and her legs wouldn't get caught in it with the straps going like I inked.
She wore a crop bra for the rest of her life, about 2 years. You do have to check regularly for fit, irritation, and make sure no lice/mites take up residence under it.

 

[K0k0shka]

Sometimes when a bird has a crop issue and stays stretched out, it can be permanent and is called pendulous crop. The muscle stretches out, and usually doesn't ever return to it's original condition. That can make it hard for the contents to empty out properly. Sometimes it's caused by a back up somewhere that doesn't let the crop empty, or it can happen to a bird that just stuffs their crop very full all the time. So I would try a crop bra and see if it helps. Some links below. They can be hard to get fitted properly, so be patient and readjust as many times as needed until you get it right. Some birds don't take to them well, she may walk backwards and fall over until she accepts it, so separate her and monitor until all is well. If there is contents in the crop then you will need to put it on a bit looser to start with, so you don't force crop contents back up, then as the crop empties you can tighten it up more to support the crop better.
Long fiberous things are very hard for them to pass, eating a lot of long grass can cause impactions. Does she have access to poultry grit all the time? My birds semi free range, but the grass is kept mowed pretty regular for that reason, and the pasture is grazed so not a lot of long stuff for mine to eat. Another cause for backups can be worms. A heavy load of internal parasites can cause slow or stopped crops sometimes.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...ntion-and-treatments-of-crop-disorders.67194/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/
This is one of my hens that had pendulous crop, and the crop bra I made. I found it fit better and her legs wouldn't get caught in it with the straps going like I inked.
She wore a crop bra for the rest of her life, about 2 years. You do have to check regularly for fit, irritation, and make sure no lice/mites take up residence under it.
View attachment 3658677

Thank you for the input! I was afraid she might end up needing a bra for the rest of her life (she's so young!), so I'll definitely look into that. I can sew, so I can make her a custom bra. I have an adult hen who's been living with a somewhat pendulous crop for a few years, and hasn't needed a bra yet, it just dangles lower than the other hens'. I check her periodically and her crop does empty, and she doesn't overstuff it, it just looks and feels looser than the others'. So I'm really hoping this pullet will be able to live with hers as well, but I'll definitely get a bra ready in case she ends up needing it.

So do you think she needs any other intervention at this point? Should I keep her on a restricted feed diet, or let her back with the flock? Is she in imminent danger?

The flock doesn't ever free range, and lives in a secure coop and run combo that has the above-mentioned bedding material outside, and pine shavings inside. In the summer, I give the chickens the grass clippings after mowing the lawn, but we're in an urban/suburban area so we mow frequently and our grass is kept short. I keep treats to a minimum, maybe once a month some scratch, a pumpkin in October, etc. So the chickens pretty much only eat their Purina crumble, and any bugs and worms they can dig up from the substrate inside their run. They have grit in a bowl available at all times. I don't know what she could've eaten... Or maybe she just stuffed herself too much...

 

[coach723]

I would monitor her crop, feed only water soluble foods and water, nothing fiberous or hard to digest. If getting a fecal test is doable for you, I would do that, rule parasites in or out as a possible contributor. I would get a weight on her and weigh her regularly, make sure she's not losing weight.

 

[K0k0shka]

I would monitor her crop, feed only water soluble foods and water, nothing fiberous or hard to digest. If getting a fecal test is doable for you, I would do that, rule parasites in or out as a possible contributor. I would get a weight on her and weigh her regularly, make sure she's not losing weight.

Thanks!

I just checked on her again. Her crop is a lot fuller than it was this morning, and she's only had half a scrambled egg and some water since then. I see that she's had a bunch of water, and it worries me that the water isn't leaving her crop. It also worries me that now it was been 24 hours since I first fed her after her hunger diet - this time yesterday I gave her half a scrambled egg, then another half a scrambled egg this morning, and she has not pooped yet in that time period... How long does it take for food to go through their system? I'm keeping her in the crate, with no bedding, so I can monitor if/when/what she poops...

 

[Lillith37]

She might have a blockage further down her digestive tract that is causing the slow crop and lack of poop.

You could try giving her coconut oil, it’s lubricating as well as antifungal. You could also try giving her egg white, that will wrap around anything hard or sharp and facilitate its passing. Fennel tea is a good gastric motility aid as well.

Does she lay eggs?

 

[K0k0shka]

She might have a blockage further down her digestive tract that is causing the slow crop and lack of poop.

You could try giving her coconut oil, it’s lubricating as well as antifungal. You could also try giving her egg white, that will wrap around anything hard or sharp and facilitate its passing. Fennel tea is a good gastric motility aid as well.

Does she lay eggs?

How do you give the coconut oil? Cold (solid) or do you warm it up and drip in the beak as a liquid? Not sure which would be easier. Maybe liquid with an eyedropper?

If the blockage is further down than the crop, is there anything I can do about that?

She's not laying yet and doesn't look to be ready either, her and her twin sister - splash laced red Wyandottes - both still have very pale combs compared to their hatch-mate gold laced Wyandottes, both of which have bright red combs and wattles and one of them just started laying a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Lillith37]

Some people freeze coconut oil and offer it as little chunks that the bird can eat directly. Others administer by syringe or dropper. I usually do syringe but luckily my one girl who has a tendency to crop issues likes to drink the coconut oil straight from the dish.

You can try the egg white and fennel tea to see if it helps any further blockages. Not much else you can do other than perhaps get proper gastric motility drugs from a vet.

I would do a vent check and also consider putting on gloves and lubing up a finger just to see if there is anything there. When birds start laying sometimes they lay abnormal eggs/soft shelled eggs which are harder to pass.

 

[K0k0shka]

UPDATE

After the pullet had a couple of normal poops and her crop was emptying somewhat better (not completely, but there was progress), I gave her half a cup of crumble and some water on Saturday, still kept her in her crate. She ate everything hungrily and was very active. But on Sunday morning her crop was HUGE - the same size as when I first noticed the problem and she wasn't interested in food on Sunday. I wasn't able to get solid coconut oil in her - she's a total sweetie otherwise and will let me do anything to her, except put anything in her mouth! She put up quite the fight and there was grease everywhere. So I syringed liquid oil into her mouth, along with some NutriDrench because I'm worried about her nutrition at this point. There was still oil everywhere and it took a lot of fighting, but I finally got it in her mouth. I got fennel tea but started reading about it online and got worried... it says it relaxes the digestive tract muscles, but do we not want the opposite here? Get them moving so they can move the material through? My cat had digestive motility issues at one point, and so did I interestingly (at the same time) where food was staying in and not moving through, and we took the same type of medicine (animal version and human version) which increased the activity of the smooth muscles of the digestive tract, instead of relaxing them... So now I'm afraid to give her the tea and make things worse.

I've had a hard time finding availability with the local vet... They don't see chickens often, so their one staff member who understands chickens is always overbooked and hard to get a hold of. No appointments until a week out, but they agreed to talk to me over the phone tomorrow morning.

This morning the poor pullet's crop is still huge, and feels like it's full of water. So I took her water away and gave her another massage.

Yesterday I did an experiment where I took the flock's food away for a few hours, and then examined each chicken's crop just to see how much variation there is in what they feel like when empty. Well, they feel like there's nothing there - not even an empty bag, it's like the organ doesn't even exist. Only on my 3-year-old hen with the somewhat distended crop, it felt like a floppy empty bag, but it was still empty. My poor pullet's crop has not felt like this in 6 days, even though all she's had to eat in those 6 days was half a cup of crumble, and one and a half scrambled eggs, plus water........

 

[coach723]

If all is normal, food generally passes through fairly quickly. It seems like she has something going on farther down. You could try worming, to see if that gets things moving. I've had birds with blockages from worms, I had one that didn't start moving things through normally for a week after worming, but eventually did. It also could be something else, it's hard to know since we can't see inside. It could be the gizzard, it could be something farther down. With out vet care, we just do the things we can to try to see if we can remedy it. I've never used fennel, no idea on that. If she were mine, I would worm her, see if that makes any difference. If not then a stool softener (ducosate sodium), not a stimulant laxative, can be tried. There are also flushes that can be used, epsom salts, molasses, (these are also used for flushing toxins in the case of poisoning) to try to move things. If you use those you have to make sure she takes in plenty of fluids as they can be dehydrating, which could make things worse.
The links I gave you before, have a lot of very good information on crop issues.