Is it moral to eat meat? ***Constructive Discussion ONLY***

[ncgnance]

Wolf-Kim said, "I agree any kind of killing involves some pain or suffering. I also think this is life in general though. You cannot tell me a chicken raised purely as a pet never experience fear, anxiouty, or pain. It is life. The objective of homegrown or ethically raised meats is to not cause the animals any more pain than necessary. I am only 19 and I can think of many many experiences in the past that I was worried, anxious, or fearful......

I think people attribute human emotions to animals wrongly. Animals do not think of life, death, pain, abuse, or any other human emotion. They get hungry, thirsty, tired, sleepy. They do feel pain, and they do get scared, but not like us. They are "happy" when their needs are met. My animals do not come running when they see me because they love me..they come because I usually have food. They let me touch/pet them because I taught them to let me touch them, and it probably feels good to be scratched or brushed. I remember one post awhile back, where the writer was explaining how, lying beside her chicken, their eyes met, and for a space of time, they "communed." That person is lucky the chicken didn't peck her eye out! The chicken was watching its reflection in the person's pupil. Animals do not commune with people. We give, they take..please don't try to turn them into humans.

 

[VeganChick]

chickenannie

I will go out on a limb here and suggest that there's not necessarily that big of a separation between vegans and meat-eaters in terms of eating living things that we kill.

Gosh - are you saying that plants have consciousness? That they are sentient and "aware" - I know they can "suffer" - I garden myself and know when they need water/food..... But there are no "pain receptors" like in animals - human and non-human animals feel pain.

I'm sorry here - but there is a world of difference between "killing" a living, breathing being and a vegetable!​

 

[Corey NC]

Quote:
Lets say you put a pig and a head of broccoli side by side. If you take a hot poker and touch it to the broccoli, what happens? Just about nothing. The broccoli burns, but it doesn't scream, it doesn't move away, and it shows no reaction to the poker because it has no central nervous system or pain receptors. If, on the other hand, you apply the hot poker to the pig, the pig screams out in pain and runs away. Apart from language the pig reacts much like we would to the hot poker because it has a central nervous system and pain receptors much like ours.

 

[chickenannie]

VeganChick, I have a lot of sensitivity to the living world. The Native Americans and Australian aborigines and many other cultures viewed all life as being alive and having spirits (even rocks and bodies of water). When I have to thin my carrot seedlings, I say a small prayer of thanks to those carrots who had the courage to grow from the seed but that I am now killing by pulling out of the ground. I think our culture has desensitized us to nature and to the fact that every living thing (plants, animals) is interrelated. With food, people make some interesting distinctions about what is "more alive" than something else -- I would guess on a scale of how similar it is to humans. For example, many vegetarians, see eating fish as "less-offensive" than eating beef. I see no difference.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Well, er, kind of hard to tell for SURE without actually BEING an animal, of course

It's all just our inference and opinion, unless you believe that animal psychics are 100% correct (tho then you're left with the problem that they generally disagree about what an animal is 'saying', so which *one* do you believe...)

People did, after all, with utter sincerity, once assert that the same things you say about animals were true of certain people, i.e. those belonging to races different from the speaker's own or sometimes even just the other gender.

Heck, you can't even be SURE (as opposed to holding a strong conviction

) that other PEOPLE feel things as you do. We just take that on faith. It is not susceptible to evidence-based proof.

A random comment not related to the above:

Vegetarians eating farm-grown (as opposed to backyard-grown) grains and veggies should be aware that animals died for THAT too... have you ever seen the aftermath of plowing or harrowing a field? Um. There is a definitely nonzero amount of carnage, in terms of pieces of bunnies and bobolinks and weasels and so forth. It's the 'bycatch' of field crops, as it were. I'm not saying that should necessarily dissuade people from eating wheat or corn or watermelons; I'm just saying that it's a reality to be aware of, and probably not entirely irrelevant to the 'is it moral to eat meat' issue.


Pat

 

[warcard]

Quote:
Problem with donating the venison is some people think like Nupine (no insult intended), and even if they were offered the venison they wouldn't take it.

I do my absolute best when hunting to get one shot, one kill. Most humane for the animal and the meat tastes better

less adrenaline, which produces the 'gamey' taste some people complain about. I actually don't like hunting with some of my husbands friends because they can be a little trigger happy and not wait for the good shot. Plus then I gotta track the poor animal to kingdom come, and of course they always decide to stop in a briar patch

downhill from the car

 

[meriruka]

I for one believe animals are capable of more than just existing, and they do feel attachment to each other and humans as well. There are examples of this in my own house.
My house chicken will whine if we are nearby and we don't let her out. When I open the cage door , she hops up on the coffee table and goes to sleep or just sits. She wants to be where we are, we don't give her treats at those times.
My cat stops eating if I am gone for more than a day.
My silkie roo crows when he hears my car after work and runs to meet me. I play fight with him for a few minutes then pick him up and hug him. There's no food involved.
If I walk right by him into the house, he will stand staring at the door for hours. My two oldest hens are sisters and they are inseparable. They bok loudly if they can't see each other and will continue until reunited. On & on.
They are definitely not human, I have no doubt every creature I have would eat me if I died and they were hungry.
Then again, I would eat them if I was starving, so maybe we are not so different...........

 

[farm_mom]

Quote:

Let's drop the whole comparision between meat and plants for now. Mod.

 

[mom'sfolly]

Let's drop the whole comparision between meat and plants for now. Mod.

 

[Nupine]

I feel this thread will be closed very soon.