is layer feed necessary for egg production?

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote: How about some links to those a few of those "numerous amounts of literature" so we can read some of that "common knowledge", please

 

[Michael Apple]

How about some links to those a few of those "numerous amounts of literature" so we can read some of that "common knowledge", please

Type in poultry range diseases on any search engine and you'll find many links. Here's a book example written by an avian veterinarian if you're interested: http://www.flemingoutdoors.com/diseases-of-free-range-poultry.html

Here's an example of common knowledge. The chances of chickens contracting Fowl Cholera are greater on range, where migratory birds, rodents, raccoons, skunks, and dead birds may be, compared to a contained yard.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

The book say chickens CAN get sick.
It doesn't say it's more likely if they are free ranged

in the breeding houses.
These are thought to spread the disease from carcasses of dead birds (possibly from neighboring backyards), improperly disposed.
Once the disease is introduced to a flock, it will stay until culling.
Chronic carriers can always lead to re-emerging of the disease in susceptible birds.
In wild birds, this disease most commonly associated with wetlands.

Quote: This says "dense aggregations" make catching the disease more likely, so it would spread faster in a confined flock

 

[Michael Apple]

The book say chickens CAN get sick.
It doesn't say it's more likely if they are free ranged

I think that's an example of a statement with nothing to back it up, since I quickly found a source that disputes it, unless of course everyone free ranges on "wetlands"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fowl_cholera

This says "dense aggregations" make catching the disease more likely, so it would spread faster in a confined flock

You failed to see the statement of mine from post #10, or conveniently omitted it in your reply:
"The variety of diseases on range outnumber those likely contracted in a well tended yard."

I don't know about you, but I don't have a rodent problem in my yard.

"Dense aggregations" only increase possibilities brought from range to a well maintained "contained" flock since most of us coop birds at night or during extreme weather. Your statement and quotes still do not make my previous statements on this thread untrue. So, there's no argument unless you choose to create one for your own sake.

Now, going back to the original post of this thread, layer rations will help the quality of eggs, but do not increase production. Light stimulating the pituitary gland to secrete hormones does.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote: I didn't "fail to see it"
I even quoted it
I just don't think it's true, and you still haven't provided any links to back it up.
You just keep repeating it, even though I showed you a source that contradicted it

Quote: LOL
By the same token, you SAYING them doesn't make them true.
Still waitiing for links to the "numerous literature" that confirms it

 

[Michael Apple]

I just don't think it's true, and you still haven't provided any links to back it up.
You just keep repeating it, even though I showed you a source that contradicted it

LOL
By the same token, you SAYING them doesn't make them true.
Still waitiing for links to the "numerous literature" that confirms it

A man/woman orders some chicks, raises them to healthy maturity and places them in an exterior, large fenced area with top netting. The yard is secure with a well ventilated coop for a shelter, and the ground is well draining soil with plenty of sand added. Proper biosecurity methods are practiced. Grass is kept short throughout the year to help prevent vectors for parasites. Beyond the contained yard are acres of pasture where migratory birds exist. Raccoons, possums, skunks, coyotes are commonly seen on this territory also. Winter rains create puddles on the uneven terrain of the pasture which can become stagnant, where protozoa, molds, and bacteria can easily populate.

Now tell me which of the two environments are more likely going to transmit diseases to this man or woman's chickens. You won't need links or literary sources to answer that question. I respectfully ask that you give a straight answer so the rest of the folks can get back to the subject matter of the thread.

 

[Cindy in PA]

Of course genetics is the main determiner of the amount of eggs a hen will lay. I still don't "get" the feed only influences egg quality. I most likely (all other conditions being the same) am going to get more eggs feeding my birds a 16% feed than I will feeding 10% scratch. I will also get more eggs on a feed with better ingredients even if they are both 16-18%. My birds have always done better on a feed with 18-20% feed. Wild birds fly over my netted pen. When it rains, I may have a puddle for a few hours. I am sure mice at times may run through my pen. I believe my hens would have better luck being free ranged on my 2 acres if it were possible.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote: I respectfully asked for LINKS to material you claimed exists, and all I've gotten is MORE CLAIMS.

You're confusing TOTAL confinement practices with your supposed "well tended yard" and PRETENDING your method is truly "secure"

Quote: My chickens seldom go more than 100 yds in any direction from their coop, so the "acres" beyond that matter not at all

If you think your setup is "more sanitary", you're deluding yourself
Quote: That's good, because it's becoming obvious you have none to provide, or you'd have simply shown them by now

REAL "biosecurity" has NO OUTSIDE "YARDS":
http://www.caes.uga.edu/Publications/pubDetail.cfm?pk_id=7431

Quote:

 

[Phoenixxx]

This thread has gotten quite interesting....

To the disease debators: the best that I know from reading about diseases and disease tolerance in people can be translated to any species: if they are happy and healthy, they can withstand and fend off whatever nature throws their way. In fact, the more exposure they get to pathogens, the better, as they will develop antibodies and resistances that will get passed down to their offspring. Now, an unhappy, unhealthy creature/person will, however, get sick and die from something as simple as a cold. Too vigorous a hygiene program (or constant isolation from interaction with outside animals and environments) will prevent the development of necessary antibodies etc.

I have a variety of wildlife here that come through my yard. Deer, coons, ducks, crows, gulls, squirrells, pheasants (the boy pheasants sometimes hang out eyeing-up my girls while tormenting the roos!), the occasional fox, mink, plus mice, frogs (one of my boys caught and ate one yesterday!) and salamanders. I've only had problems with disease in a handful of elderly hens that came from poor conditions to begin with. The healthiest of my remaining elderly hens - and the only one still laying - only goes in the coop for breakfast and bedtime. She be the original escape artist

 

[Michael Apple]

I respectfully asked for LINKS to material you claimed exists, and all I've gotten is MORE CLAIMS.

I already gave some recommendations, but like many other threads you seem to occupy, you prefer discrediting others rather than discussing matters. It isn't my fault you refuse to acknowledge common sense and won't do your own research.

You're confusing TOTAL confinement practices with your supposed "well tended yard" and PRETENDING your method is truly "secure"

No confusion at all. Answer the question.

My chickens seldom go more than 100 yds in any direction from their coop, so the "acres" beyond that matter not at all

It is still beyond the yard.

If you think your setup is "more sanitary", you're deluding yourself
That's good, because it's becoming obvious you have none to provide, or you'd have simply shown them by now

No delusion at all. I never said "more sanitary". I said less probability of disease. I provided some info and you could research it on your own if you wanted to. You don't want to. You'd rather disregard common sense and argue. I won't spoon feed you. If you want to argue with common sense, I don't have any more time for you on this thread. This thread shouldn't become what you refuse to accept as reality anyway.

REAL "biosecurity" has NO OUTSIDE "YARDS":
http://www.caes.uga.edu/Publications/pubDetail.cfm?pk_id=7431

Real biosecurity methods can be practiced around the coop and yard. It is done all over the world.