Is my BR a Betty or a Bobbie?

lindseyawest

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Hi, so I bought pullets from a lady on craigslist (I know, that was my first mistake). She said her pullets were anywhere from 15 weeks to 10 months in general. I get to her place and she has the three breeds in a box, ready for me to put in my box to take home. She's in a rush because she has 5 kids. I get home and one breed is wrong and my little Barred Rock definitely doesn't seem to be 15 weeks. I showed a local chicken guru and she's guessing 8-10 weeks. I've been texting the lady from craigslist for the last couple of days to ask about age and no response. Sooo...with that in mind, check out my BR I've been calling Betty who is 8-10 weeks probably. Chicken guru said there's a chance Betty might actually be a Bobbie (cockerel). What say the BYC community?









If it helps, Betty/Bobbie seems to always be between the Australorp and NH. He/She is scrappy, but the first to find the roost and seems to get sandwiched between the other two at night.
 
IMHO, Betty is closer to 6-8 weeks of age (closer to 6), and with that amount of comb and the double white barring, it is almost certainly a Bobby.

Take a good look at the neck to make sure those are feathers slowly growing in rather than lice or mites preventing feather growth or being hazed and pecked by the other birds.

LofMc
 
IMHO, Betty is closer to 6-8 weeks of age (closer to 6), and with that amount of comb and the double white barring, it is almost certainly a Bobby.

Take a good look at the neck to make sure those are feathers slowly growing in rather than lice or mites preventing feather growth or being hazed and pecked by the other birds.

LofMc
My local guru thought it was mites because of the locale of the lack of feathers. We dusted Betty/Bobby with mite treatment (I forget what it's called) and have diatomaceous earth in the run and coop. I was planning on bringing her/him in to see chicken guru tomorrow (hopefully) to see if she recommends more/further treatment.
 
Looks loke double white barring to me too.

So I just contacted a guy on Craigslist yesterday about buying Barred Rock pullets. His add was for "Barred Rock Chickens". I said I wanted them to produce sex link offspring specifically. He's like, yea I have 7 of them, 4-8wks old, unknown sex. I thought it weird he wouldn't know the sex by that age. So I asked to confirm that these were pure bred, and he says the mom is a barred rock, but the dad is one of four other breeds. Geesh, buyer beware! Anyways, I did all the research to be able to sex a BR chick, and I think it's not too hard, because pure bred barred rocks are practically autosexing, since the cockerels are a lighter color.
 
Looks loke double white barring to me too.

So I just contacted a guy on Craigslist yesterday about buying Barred Rock pullets. His add was for "Barred Rock Chickens". I said I wanted them to produce sex link offspring specifically. He's like, yea I have 7 of them, 4-8wks old, unknown sex. I thought it weird he wouldn't know the sex by that age. So I asked to confirm that these were pure bred, and he says the mom is a barred rock, but the dad is one of four other breeds. Geesh, buyer beware! Anyways, I did all the research to be able to sex a BR chick, and I think it's not too hard, because pure bred barred rocks are practically autosexing, since the cockerels are a lighter color.

Purebred Barred Rocks can come close to being easily sexed at an early age, but only if you purchase from a reputable private breeder who has carefully tended their lines.

Even then, the best you can say is that it comes close to maybe 80% accuracy...BR's are not an autosexing nor sex-linked breed by definition.

The term sex-linked and autosexing means that the sexes are easily distinguishable from point of hatch due to the differences in the chick down (See the hybrids of Red Stars, Black Stars, and all variations of those terms). Sex linked hybrids do not produce successive generations of sex-linked birds as the Punnett Square genetics takes off and the sexing trait of down color being linked to gender drops away as the genes are mixed (has to do with the way the female determines the sex, so the first generation has to have a color that follows the sex as determined by the hen). With autosexing, the sexing trait is carried forward in successive generations as the breed breeds true. (See Rhodebars and Welsummers for example).

The problem with the general population of Barred Rocks and the trait tendencies used to sex them is that the genetics are typically mixed with a lot of hatchery stock, which is NOT anywhere close to autosexing or even easily sexable as young chicks as the hatcheries are selecting for high production and early maturation not sexability since that is not a trait of the breed per se. They are sold as straight run.

As the birds mature, it is usually more obvious that the double barring in the males creates a lighter colored bird while the single barring in the females creates a darker bird...but you can see long threads of "What is this Barred Rock" on BYC which show it is NOT that easy to tell...is it a black stripe on white, or white stripe on black.

LofMc
 
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Given the size and redness of the comb and wattles at that age, and the light barring, you have a cockerel; "Bobbie" not "Betty."
 
My local guru thought it was mites because of the locale of the lack of feathers. We dusted Betty/Bobby with mite treatment (I forget what it's called) and have diatomaceous earth in the run and coop. I was planning on bringing her/him in to see chicken guru tomorrow (hopefully) to see if she recommends more/further treatment.

Just a follow up on this issue in case you didn't make it to your chicken guru (whom I am sure will say the same thing) as it is important you do follow up if it is lice or mites since you will need to do more treatment. How much depends on the type of infestation, how heavy of infestation, and how much you've integrated this new bird into your regular flock.

Look closely at your possibly infected bird.

Lice will look like flat,yellow crawly things and can be seen in daylight, usually at the base of the vent and through the feather shafts, with white nits at the base of shafts, which are the lice eggs. The good news is that lice live on the bird, but the bad news is the poultry dust only rids the adult lice. You will need to dust the infected bird again in 7 days, then again in 7 more as the new lice hatch out. You may need to dust a third time to make sure you got them all with heavy infestations. You should dust your other birds as lice are very infectious. Remove all loose feathers in the coop, and keep litter clean as lice live on the feathers that have dropped (for a short time). If this is the only bird showing any signs, and not overly heavy, you may be able to simply place poultry dust on top of the area where your birds naturally dust, and they will dust themselves...but watch for any signs in the others and be prepared to have to treat individually.

Mites are tiny red or black crawly things that can be hard to see...It is often easier to look for the blood trails which is the black markings on the skin at feather base, around the vent, or scabs left from the irritation of blood feeding. Mites can make the feathers look like they are rotting. Unfortunately mites live off the bird in the coop environment, feeding on the bird at night. To see them, you should check your birds at night with a flashlight, looking at your coop crevices and roosts and under roosts as well as a bird. You need to treat the bird in the same pattern as lice, treat in 7 day increments at least twice after initial treatment paying close attention to vent area and under wings and back of neck. You also will need to deep clean and treat your coop as mites live in the nooks and crannies and crevices of the coop itself and can be VERY hard to get rid of if you get behind a heavy infestation.

For either mites or lice, you can treat the bird with Poultry Dust (Permethrin/Pymethrin/Pyrethrum dust) or Sevin (carbaryl powder). For those heavily infested, it can be easier to put the bird in a plastic bag with its head out and shake (but don't bake) as you work the powder cloud around. For moderate infestation, I like to use an old nylon as a powder puff and puff under wings and vent. For mild infestations and prevention, I place the dust in the dusting area of the birds and they dust themselves.

For the coop, I have used Orange Guard (which contains natural orange oil) with good success at keeping creepy crawlies at bay, spraying roosts and crevices liberally; but for a severe infestations, especially mites, you would need to use the real stuff in spray form.

Diatomaceous Earth has some evidence of being beneficial to external parasites, however, it is also very irritating to the respiratory system for both bird and man, and for that reason I do not recommend its regular use in the environment but prefer to use the dusts above.

If this is the one and only bird that shows signs, and you have not integrated it into your flock...no harm no foul (pun intended)...treat in the pattern above and wait until NO signs of any infestation are left before introducing to your flock. This is the reason to ALWAYS isolate and separate new birds for at least 2 weeks, best a month, to ensure bio safety for your established flock.

Good Luck.
LofMc
 
Just a follow up on this issue in case you didn't make it to your chicken guru (whom I am sure will say the same thing) as it is important you do follow up if it is lice or mites since you will need to do more treatment. How much depends on the type of infestation, how heavy of infestation, and how much you've integrated this new bird into your regular flock.

Look closely at your possibly infected bird.

Lice will look like flat,yellow crawly things and can be seen in daylight, usually at the base of the vent and through the feather shafts, with white nits at the base of shafts, which are the lice eggs. The good news is that lice live on the bird, but the bad news is the poultry dust only rids the adult lice. You will need to dust the infected bird again in 7 days, then again in 7 more as the new lice hatch out. You may need to dust a third time to make sure you got them all with heavy infestations. You should dust your other birds as lice are very infectious. Remove all loose feathers in the coop, and keep litter clean as lice live on the feathers that have dropped (for a short time). If this is the only bird showing any signs, and not overly heavy, you may be able to simply place poultry dust on top of the area where your birds naturally dust, and they will dust themselves...but watch for any signs in the others and be prepared to have to treat individually.

Mites are tiny red or black crawly things that can be hard to see...It is often easier to look for the blood trails which is the black markings on the skin at feather base, around the vent, or scabs left from the irritation of blood feeding. Mites can make the feathers look like they are rotting. Unfortunately mites live off the bird in the coop environment, feeding on the bird at night. To see them, you should check your birds at night with a flashlight, looking at your coop crevices and roosts and under roosts as well as a bird. You need to treat the bird in the same pattern as lice, treat in 7 day increments at least twice after initial treatment paying close attention to vent area and under wings and back of neck. You also will need to deep clean and treat your coop as mites live in the nooks and crannies and crevices of the coop itself and can be VERY hard to get rid of if you get behind a heavy infestation.

For either mites or lice, you can treat the bird with Poultry Dust (Permethrin/Pymethrin/Pyrethrum dust) or Sevin (carbaryl powder). For those heavily infested, it can be easier to put the bird in a plastic bag with its head out and shake (but don't bake) as you work the powder cloud around. For moderate infestation, I like to use an old nylon as a powder puff and puff under wings and vent. For mild infestations and prevention, I place the dust in the dusting area of the birds and they dust themselves.

For the coop, I have used Orange Guard (which contains natural orange oil) with good success at keeping creepy crawlies at bay, spraying roosts and crevices liberally; but for a severe infestations, especially mites, you would need to use the real stuff in spray form.

Diatomaceous Earth has some evidence of being beneficial to external parasites, however, it is also very irritating to the respiratory system for both bird and man, and for that reason I do not recommend its regular use in the environment but prefer to use the dusts above.

If this is the one and only bird that shows signs, and you have not integrated it into your flock...no harm no foul (pun intended)...treat in the pattern above and wait until NO signs of any infestation are left before introducing to your flock. This is the reason to ALWAYS isolate and separate new birds for at least 2 weeks, best a month, to ensure bio safety for your established flock.

Good Luck.
LofMc
Holy chicken! Thanks for the info! I'm going to save it in a file on my computer for future reference.

We're calling our likely cockerel Kevin now (because we have the inverse situation of the bird from Up, named Kevin). I took him to the chicken guru yesterday and she didn't see any evidence of mites - not just the bugs themselves, but no blood marks or anything like that. Sooo, we're not sure why exactly the feathers are missing. She suggested spraying Wound Kote on any of the spots that are missing feathers or starting to re-feather so the other two don't peck at him while the feathers come back. She had mentioned mixing kerosene and boiled linseed oil (1:2 ratio) and "painting" it on the coop to discourage mites. I'll check out the Orange Guard, though - where does one buy that?

The other two girls are fine - no evidence of mites. We dusted them with Garden and Poultry Dust (http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/sto...en--poultry-dust-shaker-can-2-lb?cm_vc=-10005) and they've been doing dust baths with the diatomaceous earth. Do you know if Garden and Poultry Dust is also bad for their respiratory system? Given what I've shared about the lack of evidence of mites so far (so if there are mites, my guess is that they aren't that bad), how often would you recommend dusting the chickens?
 
Holy chicken! Thanks for the info! I'm going to save it in a file on my computer for future reference.

We're calling our likely cockerel Kevin now (because we have the inverse situation of the bird from Up, named Kevin). I took him to the chicken guru yesterday and she didn't see any evidence of mites - not just the bugs themselves, but no blood marks or anything like that. Sooo, we're not sure why exactly the feathers are missing. She suggested spraying Wound Kote on any of the spots that are missing feathers or starting to re-feather so the other two don't peck at him while the feathers come back. She had mentioned mixing kerosene and boiled linseed oil (1:2 ratio) and "painting" it on the coop to discourage mites. I'll check out the Orange Guard, though - where does one buy that?

The other two girls are fine - no evidence of mites. We dusted them with Garden and Poultry Dust (http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/sto...en--poultry-dust-shaker-can-2-lb?cm_vc=-10005) and they've been doing dust baths with the diatomaceous earth. Do you know if Garden and Poultry Dust is also bad for their respiratory system? Given what I've shared about the lack of evidence of mites so far (so if there are mites, my guess is that they aren't that bad), how often would you recommend dusting the chickens?

Anything inhaled can be bad for the lungs, and all of the dusts mentioned have negative side effects. However, Diatomaceous Earth is particularly fine and irritating to the lungs, with the risk of immediate silicosis emergency (search results for CDC's and NIOSH for amorphous silica...or DE), so I personally avoid it being already a mild asthma sufferer upon the advice of my Vet Tech daughter. Further there is low evidence of its actual effectiveness, although studies are coming out that show it can be effective over time, but I don't care to have it around all the time.

Permethrin types are low carcinogenic to humans per the EPA, and Sevin (carbaryl) is rated as non-concinogenic...both can produce reversible neural effects in chronic over-exposure to humans...however both are shown to be highly effective against insects. So, I have made the personal choice to use them carefully with limited exposure for myself. I personally find permethrin types less irritating to my asthma while the just the smell of the Sevin seems to stir it up, so I personally use the permethrin types.

All of that to say, choose your poison carefully and use it carefully. I prefer to stay proactive and keep the dust of choice on their dusting area and let the birds dust themselves with it so I don't have to handle it at all. I then keep the coops clean (be careful to avoid the dander and feces dust when you do that) and spray with the Orange Guard. So far, I've only had mild incidences of lice and mites...the Orange Guard seems to really help keep all creepy crawlies down in the coop, and letting the ladies dust with the Permethrin or Sevin on their own seems to keep them clear. You can also use wood fire ash as an effective preventative, but be sure it doesn't sit in water or you get lye. If you see creepy crawlies, then you have to treat the bird itself. Ivermectin applied to the skin is effective against mites (and most internal parasites that effect poultry), but will not deal with lice as the lice eat the skin dander and dead feathers rather than bite into the skin for blood.

I've gotten the Orange Guard at natural food stores and REALLY like that. We have terrible ant problems where I live and that stuff REALLY works and smells wonderful and is non-toxic (although any oil suspension can be irritating to birds so be sure to leave time for the coop to air out before the birds roost).

This is a really good article with pictures for the lice/mite issue.
http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/2012/08/poultry-lice-and-mites-identification.html

LofMc
 

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