Is my math on this fodder feed cost breakdown correct???

[ashlieneevel]

I am glad you are questioning the cost associated with feeding fodder. There is a lot of smoke and mirrors surrounding the practice. I'll be upfront and say that I think it's a terrible practice. Do it as a treat? Great but not as a sole feed practice. Your animals will starve to death. It is all about numbers. Understand that to analyse feed stuff, it is first dried to remove all the water. Here is the first lie of fodder. They do not tell you that the analysis they post is for DM and not as fed. Huge problem. If average fodder is 85% non nutritive water, how can the values be higher than the original product? For any animal to survive and produce, they need energy (calories) not pounds of feed. Potential customers zero in on the promise of #6 of fresh feed from one little lonely pound of seeds.

I think this is one of the easy rebuttals to the practice of feeding fodder to understand. The one think they should of included is DE (digestible energy). Once you know the moisture content, simple to add it back and calculate the fresh fodder energy value.
http://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=11721

I'll speak about the practice of feeding fodder to horses and we can extrapolate the info to chickens.
On the Fodder Solution site, they boast that the average horse (1000#) will eat 5-10 Kg of fodder a day. Jill average horsewoman thinks that sounds reasonable. An average horse should eat 2% of their body weight a day in forage or about 20#. 20# of hay, 20# of fodder. Same thing right? No. Not even close. Hay averages 8% moisture. Fodder averages 85%. On 20# of product, hay dry matter would be about 18.4# while the fodder would be close to 3#. Who here believes that a 1000# animal can survive on 3# of stuff a day? Another smoke and mirror on their site is a reference to a study (again on horses) where the horses were fed this 20# of fodder and did super on it. The study was well done and the pictures show some nice animals and positive results. Oh by the way, the horses were also fed ad lib low quality hay. Well that doesn't change anything does it? Would you say fresh fodder is more like hay or fresh pasture? Fresh pasture obviously. If the average horse out on pasture consumes close to 100# of grass a day, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that this horse would also eat 100# of fodder a day? That's a long way from 20#. So use that approach with your chickens. Let's just say an average hen eats 4 oz of feed a day. Moisture content is less than 2%. How much fodder would you need to feed to get 4 oz of "stuff"? 4 oz divided by .15= 26.7 oz. Your hens would need to eat 1.6# of fodder a day just to get enough energy for basic survival.

It sounds like you really just need to get in there, do it and come up with your own results. Don't you think though that if the practice of growing fodder was as good as they make it out to be, the entire planet would be doing it? It could solve world famine in 6-7 days.

The link you directed me to is what I was reading last night. I found it really interesting. Not being someone who is specialized in such things it was a bit of difficult reading but I did understand the bulk of it and the argument against the fodder. Numbers don't lie after all. There was one argument in the comments from a guy named Kyle who is from a fodder system company that made interesting arguments of why the analysis was one sided but why should i believe him when he is trying to sell someone the system in the first place. The part that gets you is that you get all these people who do use it with such amazing results. The cost of feed is absolutely ridiculous nowadays so you can't blame someone for searching for a way to save a buck lol. The scientific studies was what i was after to show me why it wasn't a good thing and I managed to find it and I accept the information presented. Afterall an agronomist would know better than I LOL. This still doesn't answer the original question of the post though, WAS MY MATH CORRECT LOL I'm horrible at math and the post was really created to see if I was doing my math correctly. i.e. the process in which I was coming to those numbers (regardless of whether or not it was an advisable practice) I really appreciate you taking the time to write such a thoughtful post. I hope you have a great day

 

[Percheron chick]

Your math is spot on IF a hen only needed 4 oz of fodder a day. That's what makes it look so attractive. I'll go back and read Kyle's comments when I'm on the computer.

 

[Percheron chick]

I made it to Feb 26th and my head was spinning! Lively discussion. Kyle lost me when he said DM does not matter.

Dry matter is tied to the available energy (calories). Isn't that the first reason why we feed our animals? As you read farther into the discussion Fodder Solutions makes an about face and says you have to feed hay in addition to the fodder. Duh! The comment section should be required reading for everyone on the various fodder posts.

 

[ashlieneevel]

I made it to Feb 26th and my head was spinning! Lively discussion. Kyle lost me when he said DM does not matter.

Dry matter is tied to the available energy (calories). Isn't that the first reason why we feed our animals? As you read farther into the discussion Fodder Solutions makes an about face and says you have to feed hay in addition to the fodder. Duh! The comment section should be required reading for everyone on the various fodder posts.

I sat and read the whole thing but my eyes were starting to glaze over so it doesn't surprise me i missed the part about hay lol. Its really easy to get swept up in sprouted fodder thing because it sounds great and you hear all these positive testimonials but at the end of the day you want to do what is best for the animals and that isnt usually whats cheapest. Perhaps I could pick your brain for a moment about the fermented feed. I understand that the nutrition and digestibility is there because its from a commercial ration or a milled ration you have prepared but aside from what you gain in nutrition from the fermentation process aren't you losing nutrition with that because the chickens are actually consuming less feed because they are filling up with water weight from the soaking of the feed ? To me it seems thats working on the same principal if you and I were to have consumed 2 big glasses of water before we sat to dinner we'd naturally eat less because the water fills us up quicker or am I totally of the mark with this?

 

[Percheron chick]

I don't feed fermented feed but for the most part you are feeding the exact same feed. You are getting the benefit of a pre and probiotic so I'll deduce that there is less non digested feed stuff in their poop. Better digestion, less feed needed.

 

[ashlieneevel]

I don't feed fermented feed but for the most part you are feeding the exact same feed. You are getting the benefit of a pre and probiotic so I'll deduce that there is less non digested feed stuff in their poop. Better digestion, less feed needed.

ok thanks for everything

 

[chickengeorgeto]

Your math is spot on IF a hen only needed 4 oz of fodder a day. That's what makes it look so attractive. I'll go back and read Kyle's comments when I'm on the computer.

That is why I used the example of soaking your fire wood in the swimming pool to make it go further. If anything sounds too good to be true then you can bet that it isn't... true that is.

 

[ashlieneevel]

That is why I used the example of soaking your fire wood in the swimming pool to make it go further. If anything sounds too good to be true then you can bet that it isn't... true that is.

thanks chicken george