Is this an Easter Egger or Ameraucana??

[drumstick diva]

EE pullet

 

[lomine]

I'm not sure I agree with this statement or maybe am misunderstanding it.

The original lines from Chile are long lost, even in Chile (whose breeds are in sad repair). The hatcheries are not using those lines for anything.

The original lines, which were a mixed and motley crew, were imported to England from Chile. The original line bred was called Araucana, which had tails, muffs and beards in some while tail-less and tufted in others (reflections of the varied crew brought over).

A shipping mishap (I think off the coast of Australia?) produced a muffed and tailed variety for that continent.

Heated disagreements arose as to what the Araucana should look like, wherein American and European and Australian lines separated when Araucana gained standard in America as tail-less and tufted while in Europe tailed and tufted and in Australia tailed, tufted and muffed.

American breeders of the rumpless type gained recognition first with those displaced American breeders who had been breeding tailed and muffed formed the American Araucana club...truncated to Ameraucana.

In America, it is the Ameraucana that is tailed and muffed while the Araucana is solely rumpless and tufted (though breeders keep un-tufted due to the lethal gene for tufting).

So there are no "original" lines left of the Chilean birds, which were mixed breeds to begin with from the 2 types...rumpless/tufted then those tailed and some muffing as well.

The whole story of Araucana or Ameraucana in fraught with mixes, disagreements, confusion, and then general selection according to club preferences.

So what we have today does not resemble the original jungle fowl in Chile, and there is no original line left in Chile. Chilean chicken keepers report any Araucana type is long and hard to find there.

LofMc

I agree with all you've said and that is also my understanding of the history (as much as we can know since there is still some arguments and confusion). I'd also agree that what we know as EEs today are very different from the original birds from Chile.

But I think there is a misconception among many that the EE birds sold by hatcheries are a mix of Ameraucana and some other breed. I wouldn't be surprised if they add a few in the mix now and then to help replenish the blue egg gene but their EE chicks aren't coming from an Ameraucana rooster with a bunch of brown layers or vis-verse-a. Of course "backyard breeders" can be another story.

 

[debid]

The hatcheries have always done EE to EE breeding and they have always selected for egg color and production. They were selecting for bearding because it's a popular feature but some have changed their minds and are offering both bearded and clean-faced.

And yes, the less standard the look they produce, the more difficult it becomes to identify the juveniles based on typical features. In fact, I've been curious to see if the hatcheries selling cream Legbars toss a few in their breeding program and we start seeing single combs and white ears, too.

 

[debid]

FWIW, I have an EE right now that's clearly heterozygous for bearding (you can barely tell she has any but the wattles are notably suppressed). She also has bright white ears and a cushion comb. She lays true blue eggs and that's the whole point, AFAIC.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I agree with all you've said and that is also my understanding of the history (as much as we can know since there is still some arguments and confusion). I'd also agree that what we know as EEs today are very different from the original birds from Chile.

But I think there is a misconception among many that the EE birds sold by hatcheries are a mix of Ameraucana and some other breed. I wouldn't be surprised if they add a few in the mix now and then to help replenish the blue egg gene but their EE chicks aren't coming from an Ameraucana rooster with a bunch of brown layers or vis-verse-a. Of course "backyard breeders" can be another story.

Yes, that is my understanding as well. The hatcheries may have a few Ameraucana around (generally not Araucana as they are too unpredictable to breed from), more so in their early development days, but they develop their own line of EE by breeding EE's.

Unfortunately without standardization, ANYTHING can be called an EE from a hatchery, and worse, they call it a breed, and worse they often mislabel it as an Ameraucana or Americana (non-existent breed).

To me it is frustrating since you can't just lift the hood and check the genetics to see if there are any blue genes lurking underneath but people buy and sell as if there are muddying the waters for those of us who do care.

But alas, that has been the fate of the blue layers from the early onset of the blue layer fad and that motley crew of birds from the Araucana region in Chile, known as the Araucana.

Interestingly, the Cream Legbar are also a derivative of the Chilean birds. Punnet developed the auto-sexing line of Legbars and his associate (who I've forgotten) focused on the Cream coloring and tossed in some blue genes from a Chilean bird for fun.

All this madness and fanfare began in the early 1900's and hasn't stopped since.

So yes, technically, the Chilean blue layer has always been a motley, mixed bird with no breed standard, but the original line has always been known as the Araucana from the Araucana Indians. Later modifications produced the Ameraucana, Araucana, and the hybridized Easter Egger with much confusion and misinformation along the way.

LofMc

 

[debid]

I'm kinda surprised there isn't yet a blue/green egg production hybrid with a brand name on it. ISA Blue, launching in 2020.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I'm kinda surprised there isn't yet a blue/green egg production hybrid with a brand name on it. ISA Blue, launching in 2020.

True. Although the Cream Legbar was intended to be such a line with the added feature of being a breed that breed true and is auto-sexing and is high production (being also derived from the high production White Leghorn).

So I'm surprised Cream Legbars haven't had more popularity. I think the original importations that were subject to Marek's slowed that down considerably. The later lines have been better, but again, you have to watch what you are getting as a lot of things are being called a Cream Legbar now that aren't.

So you would think some hatchery would standardize something so that they could always have a productive blue layer.

I think some have toyed with Sapphires that way. (Cream Legbar bred back to White Leghorn).

Names anyone?

How about Baby Blues.....or Blue Bird Layers.....or....Ocean Blues (for those waves of eggs you'll be getting)....

LofMc

 

[lilmspit]

Easter egger or Americana

 

[Brahma Chicken5000]

Easter egger or Americana

You have an Easter Egger.

 

[PouleChick]

I think some have toyed with Sapphires that way. (Cream Legbar bred back to White Leghorn).

Names anyone?

How about Baby Blues.....or Blue Bird Layers.....or....Ocean Blues (for those waves of eggs you'll be getting)....

I'm pretty sure I've spotted an 'Emerald' here in France - not sure of the mix though!