Is this coccidiosis

[esme13]

I would have corid at hand. I did want to ask were these chicks vaccinated ? And are they eating medicated feed?
Are they eating and drinking normally ? Because they are losing a lot of liquids from the diarrhea, make sure to give them some electrolytes. I would start them on corid. It looks like the start of Coccidiosis, which doesn’t have to have blood in it right away.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Oh on! I’m sadly battling the same thing with my keets I figured the extra day in transit was to blame. I’ve been giving saveachick in addition to plain water. Washed butts and put neosporin on them. So far the deaths have slowed, but one keet is half the size of the others so I don’t expect it will make it I’m so devastated.

Oh no! I’m sorry My2butterflies! Everyone works so hard to get the keets, it’s devastating when they don’t do well! I’m hoping for a quick recovery for your keets!!!

 

[Sydney65]

Little buff one died today. By the time I get Enrotex shipped here, the dundotte will be gone, I'm sure. "Streptococcus and the closely related Enterococcus bacteria normally live within the intestines of chickens, infecting birds mainly if their resistance is low — usually because of an infection by some other pathogen. S. zooepidemicus can cause sudden death in mature chickens. E. faecalis is one of the causes of omphalitis, in which embryos die in the shell and chicks die soon after hatching. Avoid these infections by maintaining good sanitation and avoiding stressful conditions." Am I supposed to pitch these eggs I just got from the same place, or did it decelop d/t sticky chick or- ? Sorry, folks, I'm a clean freak so it wasn't d/t sanitation.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Little buff one died today. By the time I get Enrotex shipped here, the dundotte will be gone, I'm sure. "Streptococcus and the closely related Enterococcus bacteria normally live within the intestines of chickens, infecting birds mainly if their resistance is low — usually because of an infection by some other pathogen. S. zooepidemicus can cause sudden death in mature chickens. E. faecalis is one of the causes of omphalitis, in which embryos die in the shell and chicks die soon after hatching. Avoid these infections by maintaining good sanitation and avoiding stressful conditions." Am I supposed to pitch these eggs I just got from the same place, or did it decelop d/t sticky chick or- ? Sorry, folks, I'm a clean freak so it wasn't d/t sanitation.

Oh Sydney, I’m so sorry. I’ve been thinking about you all day and wondering how it was going. So very sad that these babies have done so poorly! It’s very hard to tell what killed these keets without a necropsy. Is a necropsy from your state diagnostic lab possible?

As far as your recent shipment of eggs, I guess you’ll need to decide whether you’re up for the stress of another hatch. You’ve had such a rough season already, and hatching shipped eggs is difficult… If you want to try to hatch these eggs, some things to try would be: thoroughly disinfect incubator and brooder with dilute bleach or some other disinfectant before using, consider dipping eggs before setting, consider dipping navels in dilute chlorhexadine when transferring keets from incubator to brooder, consider starting keets on Nutridrench in water for the first few days in brooder, double check incubator and brooder temps and humidity. Probably the most important thing though is to try to correct any incubator issues that might be compromising healthy development of the eggs. Keets that are too weak to hatch on their own probably have a decreased ability to thrive, even if everything is done right, so think about whether you want to assist. Shipped eggs are tough though! Again, I’m very sorry.

 

[Sydney65]

Oh Sydney, I’m so sorry. I’ve been thinking about you all day and wondering how it was going. So very sad that these babies have done so poorly! It’s very hard to tell what killed these keets without a necropsy. Is a necropsy from your state diagnostic lab possible?

As far as your recent shipment of eggs, I guess you’ll need to decide whether you’re up for the stress of another hatch. You’ve had such a rough season already, and hatching shipped eggs is difficult… If you want to try to hatch these eggs, some things to try would be: thoroughly disinfect incubator and brooder with dilute bleach or some other disinfectant before using, consider dipping eggs before setting, consider dipping navels in dilute chlorhexadine when transferring keets from incubator to brooder, consider starting keets on Nutridrench in water for the first few days in brooder, double check incubator and brooder temps and humidity. Probably the most important thing though is to try to correct any incubator issues that might be compromising healthy development of the eggs. Keets that are too weak to hatch on their own probably have a decreased ability to thrive, even if everything is done right, so think about whether you want to assist. Shipped eggs are tough though! Again, I’m very sorry.

This is long so stick with me:
1.)I did disinfect w/ bleach, left it out to air dry,and let it run for 24°
2.)put eggs in a few hrs ago, but unfamiliar with dipping eggs? And if you tell me, is it too late now? 3.)Changed batteries and salt tested hygrometers.
4.) As usual, have read a lot over past month plus advice from the the egg guy. That was 2nd part I wanted input on last night.
5.) The egg guy suggested "first 25 days humidity 50-60% on day 25 stop turning eggs raise humidity to 70-75% temperature 99.5 this is with auto turner and circulating fan."
My reaction: I just explained that my babies are always dry, I'd never seen what I saw this time, esp the one where fluid actually drained out, so I'd be afraid to run that high. There's no way I'd get weight loss that way.
6.)I know dry isn't good either,and I've run consistently at 35%. So right now, it's at 40%.
7.) The ones who hit that target weight loss are all dead now. The tubby that refused to give up that last 3g is still going,eating, drinking, and since I followed @My2butterflies lead w/ neosporin, no more of whatever that was running from vent uo belly.
8.) Belly still seems distended but poops are formed,darker and smaller.
9.) So I'm thinking stay at atleast 40% until I do 1st weight and see how it compares to last time.
So that brings us to lockdown. Somewhere in here someone said they didn't lockdown until the 1st external pip. I don't know that I'd go that far, but maybe not 3 days before- bc as soon as I lockdown,other hatches came quick, and I always felt like another hour or two in the oven wouldv'e done them good. So maybe 1-2 days before the 28th day? - and there's no way I'm going that high on humidity for lockdown again. Mb 55?
10.) From reading - again- I thought the ones I ended up helping before were shrink wrapped,, but it's the outer papery layer- so that's not shrink wrapped,and it's form fittedness is normal, but they could have probably got out if I'd let them go longer?
11.) I don't remember having raised humidity that high with Bella's keets earlier this year. I remember complaining about Brinsea not holding heat this year, but I seriously think I forgot that 65% thing.
Hatch rate wasn't perfect, but better than this time.
12.) And, when describing the hatches this time, I mentioned there were some already dead and two that died during the "giving them a break" back in incubator while going through the process. I described those as seeming to have internal hemorrhage bc there was a dark swelling that was so big it displaced the yolk. Again, from reading, it sounds like those were "mushy chicks"?

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

This is long so stick with me:
1.)I did disinfect w/ bleach, left it out to air dry,and let it run for 24°
2.)put eggs in a few hrs ago, but unfamiliar with dipping eggs? And if you tell me, is it too late now? 3.)Changed batteries and salt tested hygrometers.
4.) As usual, have read a lot over past month plus advice from the the egg guy. That was 2nd part I wanted input on last night.
5.) The egg guy suggested "first 25 days humidity 50-60% on day 25 stop turning eggs raise humidity to 70-75% temperature 99.5 this is with auto turner and circulating fan."
My reaction: I just explained that my babies are always dry, I'd never seen what I saw this time, esp the one where fluid actually drained out, so I'd be afraid to run that high. There's no way I'd get weight loss that way.
6.)I know dry isn't good either,and I've run consistently at 35%. So right now, it's at 40%.
7.) The ones who hit that target weight loss are all dead now. The tubby that refused to give up that last 3g is still going,eating, drinking, and since I followed @My2butterflies lead w/ neosporin, no more of whatever that was running from vent uo belly.
8.) Belly still seems distended but poops are formed,darker and smaller.
9.) So I'm thinking stay at atleast 40% until I do 1st weight and see how it compares to last time.
So that brings us to lockdown. Somewhere in here someone said they didn't lockdown until the 1st external pip. I don't know that I'd go that far, but maybe not 3 days before- bc as soon as I lockdown,other hatches came quick, and I always felt like another hour or two in the oven wouldv'e done them good. So maybe 1-2 days before the 28th day? - and there's no way I'm going that high on humidity for lockdown again. Mb 55?
10.) From reading - again- I thought the ones I ended up helping before were shrink wrapped,, but it's the outer papery layer- so that's not shrink wrapped,and it's form fittedness is normal, but they could have probably got out if I'd let them go longer?
11.) I don't remember having raised humidity that high with Bella's keets earlier this year. I remember complaining about Brinsea not holding heat this year, but I seriously think I forgot that 65% thing.
Hatch rate wasn't perfect, but better than this time.
12.) And, when describing the hatches this time, I mentioned there were some already dead and two that died during the "giving them a break" back in incubator while going through the process. I described those as seeming to have internal hemorrhage bc there was a dark swelling that was so big it displaced the yolk. Again, from reading, it sounds like those were "mushy chicks"?

Hmmm, what was the bit about Neosporin? I think I missed that… How about running this next incubation like your most recent, previously successful ones? I had a terrible time myself this past summer, but maybe something like 40% humidity during incubation and then >60% at lockdown? You could raise humidity at first internal pip, but should stop turning several days before… Weight is good, but I prefer to look at the size of the aircell. Somewhere there is a guinea specific study of ideal weight loss during incubation - I’ll see if I can find it. What about other incubation factors, like temperature and turning? How many of these eggs have loose or detached air cells?

I’ve dipped dirty duck eggs before setting, but I don’t know that I’d do that once they’ve been set… Are eggs visibly dirty? Would you like me to tag CluckNDoodle and see if she has suggestions? She’s hatched so many eggs from all kinds of sources and has given me fantastic advice in the past…

 

[Sydney65]

Hmmm, what was the bit about Neosporin? I think I missed that… How about running this next incubation like your most recent, previously successful ones? I had a terrible time myself this past summer, but maybe something like 40% humidity during incubation and then >60% at lockdown? You could raise humidity at first internal pip, but should stop turning several days before… Weight is good, but I prefer to look at the size of the aircell. Somewhere there is a guinea specific study of ideal weight loss during incubation - I’ll see if I can find it. What about other incubation factors, like temperature and turning? How many of these eggs have loose or detached air cells?

I’ve dipped dirty duck eggs before setting, but I don’t know that I’d do that once they’ve been set… Are eggs visibly dirty? Would you like me to tag CluckNDoodle and see if she has suggestions? She’s hatched so many eggs from all kinds of sources and has given me fantastic advice in the past…

She applied Neosporin to vent. I think main thing is it didn't stick. This was most insidious illness. Dundotte is gone this a.m. Aside from wondering where everyone went, it was eating and drinking, clean, bright eyed & active last night.
Everything in there is being burned. I hate to pitch the tote bc they don't make them like this now. They make the size, but not clear with latches on lid. Ppl have hayday selling for 70 bucks on ebay.
Eggs are clean, not a speck on them. Same last time. The shells are firm,don't feel weak, no excessive grittiness to suggest calcium deficiency.
None of the shells were cracked this time....last time one was one broken and 3 I think it was had hairline cracks that I didn't catch at first.....????....... The "broken one" was more like one area was crushed- nothing had seeped. The hair line cracks I didn't catch until I noticed a bit of sticky on them; they were in the incubator by then. They had looked like scratches on surface.
Last time I commented that some of the eggs seemed to have a lot of fluid in them, were jiggly. Remember I was confused about air cells? Some were a bit jiggly this time but nothing like last time, they don't look like there's water sloshing around. I didn't recandle last night before putting them in; too upset & knew I'd over-fret. I'd let them rest upright in carton for a little over 24° beforehand & put them in on their side with egg turner on (upright with manual turning didn't help last time, so ) I can always revert after I candle again.
Last time air cells drew down well. When this little tubby didn't do anything after internal pip and no one else had even done that 24° later, I gave them air holes. 4 externally pipped on their own. Tubby's shell was cracked a good bit, but I'm not sure it's what you'd consider "zipped"? No one else got that far. 4 survived assisted hatch, all were in a sticky "sack";had to use qtip and wash to free them from it. They were chirping and but couldn't move. I was surprised they had got their heads up to pip.

Anyone interested in helping bring healthy live keets into the world is welcome to chime in.
Stupidly fascinating that Rosie hatched 100% the 1st time in alternating weather conditions of hot, cold, and downpours & I can't get it right in controlled environment. If she didn't step on 3 of her hatchlings and then later drag them out to the killing fields, you'd think she was a pro.
- and don't buy into the theory that they have short term memories ; she's still turning her back to and avoiding me. If I go in the front, she goes to the back. There's no way anyone could convince me that this bird is not angry with me for selling her offspring.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

She applied Neosporin to vent. I think main thing is it didn't stick. This was most insidious illness. Dundotte is gone this a.m. Aside from wondering where everyone went, it was eating and drinking, clean, bright eyed & active last night.
Everything in there is being burned. I hate to pitch the tote bc they don't make them like this now. They make the size, but not clear with latches on lid. Ppl have hayday selling for 70 bucks on ebay.
Eggs are clean, not a speck on them. Same last time. The shells are firm,don't feel weak, no excessive grittiness to suggest calcium deficiency.
None of the shells were cracked this time....last time one was one broken and 3 I think it was had hairline cracks that I didn't catch at first.....????....... The "broken one" was more like one area was crushed- nothing had seeped. The hair line cracks I didn't catch until I noticed a bit of sticky on them; they were in the incubator by then. They had looked like scratches on surface.
Last time I commented that some of the eggs seemed to have a lot of fluid in them, were jiggly. Remember I was confused about air cells? Some were a bit jiggly this time but nothing like last time, they don't look like there's water sloshing around. I didn't recandle last night before putting them in; too upset & knew I'd over-fret. I'd let them rest upright in carton for a little over 24° beforehand & put them in on their side with egg turner on (upright with manual turning didn't help last time, so ) I can always revert after I candle again.
Last time air cells drew down well. When this little tubby didn't do anything after internal pip and no one else had even done that 24° later, I gave them air holes. 4 externally pipped on their own. Tubby's shell was cracked a good bit, but I'm not sure it's what you'd consider "zipped"? No one else got that far. 4 survived assisted hatch, all were in a sticky "sack";had to use qtip and wash to free them from it. They were chirping and but couldn't move. I was surprised they had got their heads up to pip.

Anyone interested in helping bring healthy live keets into the world is welcome to chime in.
Stupidly fascinating that Rosie hatched 100% the 1st time in alternating weather conditions of hot, cold, and downpours & I can't get it right in controlled environment. If she didn't step on 3 of her hatchlings and then later drag them out to the killing fields, you'd think she was a pro.
- and don't buy into the theory that they have short term memories ; she's still turning her back to and avoiding me. If I go in the front, she goes to the back. There's no way anyone could convince me that this bird is not angry with me for selling her offspring.

Ok, I had a quick chat with @CluckNDoodle about your hatch and am attempting to tag her here. CluckNDoodle, it would be great if you have time to read through this thread. My main questions are: 1) When you have sticky chicks, is it usually due to high humidity? Or could it be an effect of eggs hurt by shipping? 2) Have you heard of a particular mortality with sticky chicks? They hatch covered in albumin, so maybe they inhale some of it and get a lung infection? Are there any special steps that should be taken with sticky chicks to protect them? 3) Sydney had a successful guinea hatch earlier, but this shipped egg hatch didn’t go well and Sydney had to assist all four keets. Any other thoughts to help out this current hatch and prevent infection?

THANK YOU!

 

[Sydney65]

@My2butterflies how are yours doing?

 

[CluckNDoodle]

Sorry for the delayed response, I think I read through most of what you were contending with. Let me start by addressing the question about sticky chicks. Which the most common reason for seeing this is from the eggs not losing enough weight during incubation (meaning the humidity was too high) another cause of sticky chicks is improper turning during incubation (not turning often enough). For whatever reason, it's more common to see sticky chicks with shipped eggs in general though.

Since I wasn't following your original hatch I'm not entirely sure what they looked like at hatch but sometimes mushy chick disease (Omphalitis) can also cause a sticky hatch. It displays in multiple ways but most commonly you would also see an abnormally distended abdomen, fluid pockets under the chick's skin, or a greenish coloration to the abdomen after hatch. This can be fatal to chicks within the first several days after hatching as well and is from a bacterial infection. Cleanliness is the primary way to prevent mushy chick disease. Disinfect the incubator with diluted bleach water and then rinse clean before using again. Also, wash and dry your hands thoroughly before handling the eggs.

Did you lose all of the chicks after hatch? I may have overlooked this part, sorry if you've already answered this. Another thing to consider when you're losing chicks for an unknown reason is you can take the chick in for necropsy when all else fails.