It has been 2 months and the two flocks are not integrated, any advice?

Specialk1979

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I'm hoping to get some help. I have 4 wyandotte hens about 18mo old, one went broody and is now raising her 3 week old chicks. Before I knew I would have a broody, I purchased 4, day old chicks. I raised them in the house for 12 weeks with tons of day trips outside in a seperate pen to ease the transition. We did this daily for the last 2 weeks. When we moved the new onesout full time, there really wasn't much squabbling, except when it one of the older ones would run one off the feeder. They free range most of the day. The new ones haven't been able to roost up high with the old ones cuz they get knocked off. They hide in the coop while the older ones are in the run, if they try to go into the run, they get chased back in. When they are free ranging, they move in two seperate flocks. Will they ever figure things out? It just seems like the new ones should be trying to stand their ground, there have been zero all out brawls or feather pulling, just chasing and a few pecks here and there. The new ones are now 20 weeks and I'm afraid they won't go in the coop when they start laying in fear that one of the old ones may come through. Gonna have my hands full when mama is done raising the 3rd group! Any ideas??
 
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IME, if they have enough room to avoid each other, they will stay as separate "family groups." Birds that were raised together tend to remain together; older birds dominate younger birds. You may need a separate nest site, or you may find your free-ranging youngsters laying in odd places.
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If the mother hen and her chicks are separated from the rest of the flock, I'd let her integrate them immediately. I isolate my broody hens during incubation, hatching, and for 4 days after the hatch, but then let the mother hen integrate the chicks into the flock. She does all of the integration work and nobody messes with mama hen or her chicks.

I've read that integration becomes much more difficult if the mother hen and chicks are kept separate from the flock until the chicks are 4+ weeks old, as the mother hen may be about done "mothering" and protecting them. When that happens, you may be stuck keeping them separate from the flock for a few more months unless you can set up lots of escape areas and safe zones for the little ones.

With regard to the other groups (mature hens and 20-week olds), it sounds like things are going fine as long as nobody's getting hurt. It really helps to have multiple feeding stations, watering stations and roost bars to relieve some of the integration pressure. Free-ranging is also a big help as it gives everyone lots of "personal space". As noted above, they'll probably continue to function as separate peer groups.
 
Thanks for all your responses! And yes, i forgot to mention. That mama is with the flock with the babies.

Currently, I have a large feeder in the run, which they seem to take turns using when the coast is clear. A chick feeder outside the run, intended for mama hen and chicks as the large feeder is a treadle feeder, but they all use it. And have 4 waters going, but come winter there will only be one with a heater in it.

Apologies in advance for so many questions!

A few questions, what should I do about the harsh winter. Last year they spent alot of time in the covered and protected run where the feed and water is. I do open the door so they have the option to free range, which they do when it's not too bad. If the 20 week old will not go into the run while the older ones are there, they won't have access to feed..there is water in the coop. I don't want to put feed in the coop if at all possible.

Also, how would I make a seperate nest area that would be protected from the elements and yet accessible?

Once the babies are cut loose from mama, do they tend to form their own (3rd) flock, or will they choose one of the others?

And finally, would there be any benefit to attempting to keep them all locked in the coop and run for a couple days in hopes that they work things out? On occasion one older hen seems to want to forage with the 20 week olds, but they get scared and run away. There is one older one who is consistent in chasing them away, she is temporarily the lead hen, the mama hen was prior.
 
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It sounds like things are going perfectly well. Don’t get impatient or give up hope.

A mature chicken always outranks a less mature chicken in the pecking order. If a chicken lower in the pecking order intrudes on the personal space of a more mature chick there is likely to be a peck to remind the lower ranking that it is bad chicken etiquette to intrude on its betters. Immature chickens quickly learn that and form their own separate flock that avoids as much as possible the mature birds. If the older birds are in the run, the younger are in the coop. If they are all locked in the coop the older are on the floor and the younger are on the roosts. Things like that. The more space you can give them the smoother this process goes. Extra feeding and watering areas also helps keep the peace.

Eventually the younger birds will mature enough that they can force their way into the pecking order. It’s not a matter of size but of maturity. It’s not unusual at all for a mature bantam to outrank a mature full-sized hen in the pecking order. That comes from the personality of the individual chickens once they mature. My pullets normally mature enough to make their way into the pecking order after they start to lay. That’s just a general statement, it can vary. They may also kind of form a sub-flock of their own even after they fully join the main flock but you will see a lot more peaceful interaction.

By having older hens already laying you are ahead of the game in getting the pullets to use the nests. Each is an individual so they don’t come with guarantees with anything related to behaviors, but I’ve had much better success with pullets using the nests when there are older hens around already laying to show them what to do.

When the hen weans her chicks they will already be “integrated” with the flock. The older chickens will accept their right to be flock members and should not go out of their way to attack them. That’s a big advantage of having a hen raise her chicks with the flock. But they will still be immature. They will still have the same pecking order issues that immature chickens face. They will form their own sub-flock and avoid both groups of older chickens until they mature enough to join the pecking order just like that other group. Plus you probably have cockerels with this group. When those cockerels hit puberty things are likely to get really exciting down there.

I don’t know how much total room you have, either in the run or in the coop or combined, but the more room you can give them the better. All this stuff goes better if you have more room. Keeping as much of the run snow-free as you can, maybe expanding the run if your space is at all tight, and setting up feeding stations wide apart in the run can help. Having places the younger ones can get out of the line of sight of the older like short walls or something to hide under can help expand your space. Having perches high enough that the younger ones can avoid the older can be really handy. Adding more roosts in the main coop might help. I put in a separate roost, a little lower than the main roosts but higher than my nests and horizontally separated, to give the younger a safe place to sleep that was not my nests.

Those 4 square feet per chicken in the coop and 10 in the run magic numbers pretty much applies to a flock of mature hens though you can often add one rooster to that number without a huge change, but when you integrate as much as you are you really need more room. It goes so much smoother if they have room to avoid the more mature birds.

I don’t have a clue what your coop looks like or your nests. I can’t tell you how you can add nests. They can be as complicated as you wish to make them or as simple as a box or milk crate with bedding setting in a corner.

I see nothing good coming from locking them into a tiny space and having them fight it out. That is more of a recipe for disaster. Flocks have been going through the process of absorbing new members since chickens existed. There is a natural way to do this. When they mature enough they will work it out provided they have enough room to coexist until they get mature enough to go through the process. A difference is that we often pack them into too tight a space for them to work out this process in a natural way. A lot of the time people think we have to micromanage a process that has been perfected over thousands of years. When your cockerels hit puberty you are likely to be back asking about that, what happens then is often not for the faint of heart, but in general by giving them enough room and letting them work it out with minimum interference from us is the best way to go.

Now for the legal disclaimer. Chickens are living animals, each with its own individual personality. Each flock has its own dynamics. No one can give you any guarantees when it comes to behaviors. We can tell you what is most likely to happen and the best ways to prepare and handle things, but occasionally (not that often thankfully) you get an Attila the Hun or Attilalita the Hunness that is just a brute and throws everything out of kilter. They just enjoy beating up on other chickens. But most of the time, given room and time, they work it out and you have a peaceful flock, especially when all are mature.

Good luck!
 
It sounds like things are going perfectly well. Don’t get impatient or give up hope.

A mature chicken always outranks a less mature chicken in the pecking order. If a chicken lower in the pecking order intrudes on the personal space of a more mature chick there is likely to be a peck to remind the lower ranking that it is bad chicken etiquette to intrude on its betters. Immature chickens quickly learn that and form their own separate flock that avoids as much as possible the mature birds. If the older birds are in the run, the younger are in the coop. If they are all locked in the coop the older are on the floor and the younger are on the roosts. Things like that. The more space you can give them the smoother this process goes. Extra feeding and watering areas also helps keep the peace.

Eventually the younger birds will mature enough that they can force their way into the pecking order. It’s not a matter of size but of maturity. It’s not unusual at all for a mature bantam to outrank a mature full-sized hen in the pecking order. That comes from the personality of the individual chickens once they mature. My pullets normally mature enough to make their way into the pecking order after they start to lay. That’s just a general statement, it can vary. They may also kind of form a sub-flock of their own even after they fully join the main flock but you will see a lot more peaceful interaction.

By having older hens already laying you are ahead of the game in getting the pullets to use the nests. Each is an individual so they don’t come with guarantees with anything related to behaviors, but I’ve had much better success with pullets using the nests when there are older hens around already laying to show them what to do.

When the hen weans her chicks they will already be “integrated” with the flock. The older chickens will accept their right to be flock members and should not go out of their way to attack them. That’s a big advantage of having a hen raise her chicks with the flock. But they will still be immature. They will still have the same pecking order issues that immature chickens face. They will form their own sub-flock and avoid both groups of older chickens until they mature enough to join the pecking order just like that other group. Plus you probably have cockerels with this group. When those cockerels hit puberty things are likely to get really exciting down there.

I don’t know how much total room you have, either in the run or in the coop or combined, but the more room you can give them the better. All this stuff goes better if you have more room. Keeping as much of the run snow-free as you can, maybe expanding the run if your space is at all tight, and setting up feeding stations wide apart in the run can help. Having places the younger ones can get out of the line of sight of the older like short walls or something to hide under can help expand your space. Having perches high enough that the younger ones can avoid the older can be really handy. Adding more roosts in the main coop might help. I put in a separate roost, a little lower than the main roosts but higher than my nests and horizontally separated, to give the younger a safe place to sleep that was not my nests.

Those 4 square feet per chicken in the coop and 10 in the run magic numbers pretty much applies to a flock of mature hens though you can often add one rooster to that number without a huge change, but when you integrate as much as you are you really need more room. It goes so much smoother if they have room to avoid the more mature birds.

I don’t have a clue what your coop looks like or your nests. I can’t tell you how you can add nests. They can be as complicated as you wish to make them or as simple as a box or milk crate with bedding setting in a corner.

I see nothing good coming from locking them into a tiny space and having them fight it out. That is more of a recipe for disaster. Flocks have been going through the process of absorbing new members since chickens existed. There is a natural way to do this. When they mature enough they will work it out provided they have enough room to coexist until they get mature enough to go through the process. A difference is that we often pack them into too tight a space for them to work out this process in a natural way. A lot of the time people think we have to micromanage a process that has been perfected over thousands of years. When your cockerels hit puberty you are likely to be back asking about that, what happens then is often not for the faint of heart, but in general by giving them enough room and letting them work it out with minimum interference from us is the best way to go.

Now for the legal disclaimer. Chickens are living animals, each with its own individual personality. Each flock has its own dynamics. No one can give you any guarantees when it comes to behaviors. We can tell you what is most likely to happen and the best ways to prepare and handle things, but occasionally (not that often thankfully) you get an Attila the Hun or Attilalita the Hunness that is just a brute and throws everything out of kilter. They just enjoy beating up on other chickens. But most of the time, given room and time, they work it out and you have a peaceful flock, especially when all are mature.

Good luck!
I appreciate the wisdom and thoughtfulness you put into your responses! Have you considered doing a BYC article on chick and pullet integration within mixed-age flocks?
 
Here is the coop....
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Planning on adding a second one of the same size in the spring if it can wait. There are 2 roosts at different heights. The mature birds are sleeping at the very top..in fact they love to sleep in the eaves. The pullets are on the lower roost. We are hoping to keep a total of 9 or ten chickens.which i know is a bit much for the coop size as it its now.bit the run is fully protected and have panels for it for the winter, and i added the full length loft that will be available once mama starts bringing the babies into the coop to sleep..I will rehome the extra babies as we weren't planning on hatching but we are glad we did, what a great experience with letting mama do all the work! Btw, I'm thinking we may have 3 of the 4 babies being roos.ugh.

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They free range on 2 acres from morning to dusk so I'm hoping that will help hold me over until I can add another coop!
 
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The box is a loft..it is currently being used by the broody..she was in there for first few days after the chicks hatched and she sleeps in there with them until she decides the coop is better. Ultimately I'm hoping it will be used as extra space for them to hangout in in the winter.
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