Java Thread

[BlackPanther]

Thank you so much! I'll give it a try!

 

[BlackPanther]

I found this yesterday: www.javabreedersofamerica/p/breeders-list.html

I hope it is helpful to anyone looking for Javas.

If you (anyone at all!) know of any more sources for Javas, I'd love it if you would post them.
In additon, I've heard of three Java breeders, Jim Ward, Monte Bowen, and Bill York; but I don't know where they are or how to contact them.

 

[Chicken Coach]

Monte only sells eggs and only in the spring and early summer,Nice guy.Jim lives in south Arkansas i live in the northwest part of Arkansas i have talked to him too but have not meet him yet.Nice guy.We are all nice guys with javas.LOL

 

[Poultry Friend]

Does anyone know the genetics of the black Java, and then what the genetics of the Auburn Java are?

I am confused since the Auburns were bred from a mutation found in the blacks. I just don't understand how it could have hidden. Is it a gene that is not expressed unless it is homozygous? (recessive)

It looks like the pattern genes will act differently in regards to what the base of the Java's are. So if the black java is E, then that changes what genes could be causing the spangling effect.

I am trying to figure this out to see if it is possible to breed laced birds without adding other breeds (which is what I would like to avoid)

Thanks!

 

[BlackPanther]

LOL!
I seem to have picked the perfect breed then!
I would just love to have an Auburn Java rooster -- but I can't even find a hen!

 

[bnjrob]

Does anyone know the genetics of the black Java, and then what the genetics of the Auburn Java are?

I am confused since the Auburns were bred from a mutation found in the blacks. I just don't understand how it could have hidden. Is it a gene that is not expressed unless it is homozygous? (recessive)

It looks like the pattern genes will act differently in regards to what the base of the Java's are. So if the black java is E, then that changes what genes could be causing the spangling effect.

I am trying to figure this out to see if it is possible to breed laced birds without adding other breeds (which is what I would like to avoid)

Thanks!

I know you've posted on the FB page and the list serv but contacting Lyle Behl or the folks at Garfield Farm directly may get yield you faster results. Although I don't know if Lyle has actually looked into the different alleles etc. and gotten scientific about the colors. Lyle has more than just Auburns, he has brought out several more colors in his Java flock and there was someone else that had hatched out some Blue Javas but I haven't heard anything about them lately. Some of the original Auburns that weren't culled came out of eggs from the Garfield Farm flock and hatched at the museum in Chicago.

I know that there is a chicken genetics book that has been recommended to me but I have not gotten it yet and at the moment I can't recall the name of it but they sell it on Amazon. There are also some online poultry genetics calculators websites that deal with coloration that you can look at. I have done some looking at them but other things have taken precedence so I haven't gotten super involved in looking at the color genetics scientifically. And with weight and type being more of a concern than coloring in the Java, I'm trying to remember to focus on that prior to messing too much with coloration.

I can tell you that the old books I have read - from the mid/late 1800s and early 1900s discuss that it was known that "red" and "straw" colors were found to come out in both Blacks and Mottleds.

There is also good discussion in these books regarding the history of Javas which has some contradicting stories but is interesting.

From personal experience I can tell you that we have a Mottled cockerel that has turned black with gold throughout the hackles, back, and wings. We also have 2 Black cockerels that are showing Auburn - we call them the "Christmas Boys" because of the green sheen of their black feathers against the coppery/red color of the Auburn feathering.

It is my belief after reading a lot of these old books and discussing with "old" heritage bird breeders, that these colors were present all along, but because they were not accepted SOP, those birds were culled instead of being bred since birds that didn't earn their keep were turned into dinner. Unlike now where many people keep chickens as pets only and don't kill any of their birds.

 

[Chicken Coach]

Good reply bnjrob.I have 3 lines of javas and only 4 chickens that have the white and auburn gene so i'm always happy to get auburn or whites.I have a few of that color .The other 2 lines are all black and i keep them all in diffrent coops.I sell hatching eggs and i want to keep them strait .I'm sure if some people hatched a auburn chick in there blacks they would have a fit.People are weird.LOL

 

[bnjrob]

Good reply bnjrob.I have 3 lines of javas and only 4 chickens that have the white and auburn gene so i'm always happy to get auburn or whites.I have a few of that color .The other 2 lines are all black and i keep them all in diffrent coops.I sell hatching eggs and i want to keep them strait .I'm sure if some people hatched a auburn chick in there blacks they would have a fit.People are weird.LOL

Haha - that's true! If you don't learn about chicken genetics, you don't realize that what gets hatched may not always look exactly like the parents.

Honestly, I'm thrilled that we've had these other colors pop up. My boy with the gold on him is just beautifully colored and I'd love to see if we can keep it going, even if it isn't SOP. He weighed just an ounce shy of 5 lbs at 6 months old so I'm hoping that he will be a big old boy in another 6 months. We're still building more chicken tractors so that we can segregate specific breeders since we ended up with more colors than we originally anticipated.

 

[Poultry Friend]

Thanks for the advice! I will definatly contact them. I was just curious if anyone had this info handy. I looked into the chicken colours book out of the Netherlands, but it is $130 and a bit out of my range. I am usually pretty good with genetics, being involved with mice and horses for about 5 years, but with birds there seems to be more modifiers involved- I am sure because of the feathers.

 

[bnjrob]

Thanks for the advice! I will definatly contact them. I was just curious if anyone had this info handy. I looked into the chicken colours book out of the Netherlands, but it is $130 and a bit out of my range. I am usually pretty good with genetics, being involved with mice and horses for about 5 years, but with birds there seems to be more modifiers involved- I am sure because of the feathers.

You're right about a lot more being involved. Poultry genetics is not just simple Mendelian genetics. If it were, it would be easy to get everything together to come out looking the same. If you talk to the "old guys", if you want to make headway in chicken breeding faster than 5-10 yrs or more of breeding, then you have to hatch out literally a hundred or more chicks a year to get what you want. Some of these guys will hatch out a hundred chicks and cull all but a handful of them out of their breeding program. So far I have not come across any breeder than has actually told me that they have learned all the scientific stuff in order to breed. Most of the old breeders seem to use line breeding and cull heavily. Probably because even though you can breed a chicken, there is no absolute guarantee that it is going to come out looking like it's parents, so knowing the dna stuff isn't going to help a whole lot to try to get ahead faster.

The other issue is that when talking to the old breeders of heritage birds, because color is easier to get than the correct wt and type for a dual purpose large fowl, color is the last thing being considered when they are breeding. Otherwise they'd just be breeding backyard pets and not breeding true to these chicken's heritage as dual purpose homestead birds.