Java Thread

[Elemes]

I have two cockerels growing out right now, just deciding which one I'll be keeping.
Which one do you prefer? They're 3.5 months of age.

The above is Thor.

And this is Titus.

 

[bnjrob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemes

I have two cockerels growing out right now, just deciding which one I'll be keeping.
Which one do you prefer? They're 3.5 months of age.


If you are planning to breed to the SOP, then it is really too early to be making a decision. Javas can take more than a year to fully mature. I don't cull for anything but obvious flaws at such an early age. You run the risk of getting rid of the better bird when you cull too early - especially if you don't have many to choose from. They change quite a bit between the juvenile stage and a year old, and they can change even after a year old. I had one of my first cocks pop up with a side sprig, which is a DQ, when he was about 2 years old. These guys take a while to grow and fill out completely. After several years of breeding, I'm able to cull earlier than a year old for different things, but that is because I have watched enough hatches grow out completely, that I know what to look for and what to expect from my birds. But if it's the first year that someone has Javas, they really need to grow out birds to full maturity to get a handle on how they change.

In addition, it is never a good idea to only have one cock if you are expecting to have a self-perpetuating flock. The more males you have, the more diversity and less need to introduce new blood frequently. Also, if you pare down to only one cock and something happens to that one, you can really screw up your breeding program.

 

[Elemes]

Thank you for all that helpful feedback. I'm not interested in keeping more than 1 Cockerel at this time, due to my small flock. If it happens that the chosen Cockerel is no more, I'll go from there. I am not able to establish a full-on breeding operation at this time but maybe after I retire.
I will be watching them grow out for a while - wasn't looking to cull anytime soon. Just trying to choose the best out of what's available.
Thanks again.

 

[MagicChicken]

One of my Black Java cockerels was a strange, pale grey as a chick. Now he has a good build and dark eyes (a feature I desperately need in my flock) but his face is a darker red than desired and his feathers have a slight purple sheen in addition to the green sheen. I almost culled him when he was young because his coloring was so weird compared with all my other Java chicks. Not sure if I should use him in a breeding program. Has anyone else seen a pale grey Java chick? Any thoughts on impact if I use him? Or what traits would balance his purple tendency?

 

[bnjrob]

One of my Black Java cockerels was a strange, pale grey as a chick. Now he has a good build and dark eyes (a feature I desperately need in my flock) but his face is a darker red than desired and his feathers have a slight purple sheen in addition to the green sheen. I almost culled him when he was young because his coloring was so weird compared with all my other Java chicks. Not sure if I should use him in a breeding program. Has anyone else seen a pale grey Java chick? Any thoughts on impact if I use him? Or what traits would balance his purple tendency?

We've had a couple like that but I can't remember how they grew out. Feather colors are easier to fix than some of the other stuff, so if type is good and he has dark eyes, I'd consider using him, knowing all the issues you've had with getting what you need. I think you'd be able to breed out the purple sheen if it popped up in the kids. I've been working on a family group that was a wrong colored cock bred back to correct colored hens. I'm a few years into it now and am getting the right colored feathers most of the time in the offspring and am seeing the results that I hoped would happen so I am looking at starting to mix them up a little with the other family groups. I know those old folks are adamant about not breeding incorrect coloring, but you're also supposed to look at type and size first, so I say keep the guy and if his type and eye color stay good, try him out and see what you get.

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
I'm still on the fence about him. I took him and two other cockerels to a show in October. One cockerel took best of breed (out of 12 birds). Out of four cockerels in the show mine were 1, 2 and 3. Purple guy was number 3. Didn't get a chance to ask the judge about him. But he has a long, uniformly wide back and he is right where he should be on weight, which are both desperately needed features in my flock. Bird number 2 is smaller, and his back tapers more, but his coloring is better - he has a better head, bright yellow soles, medium dark eyes, a good green sheen, and relatively dark underfluff. Think I'll hold onto the big purple dude for a few more weeks and then decide. I'm going to need the pen he is in once this year's chicks start coming out of the brooder, so either he goes or one of my older cocks has to go. There is never enough space.

 

[bnjrob]

I'm still on the fence about him. I took him and two other cockerels to a show in October. One cockerel took best of breed (out of 12 birds). Out of four cockerels in the show mine were 1, 2 and 3. Purple guy was number 3. Didn't get a chance to ask the judge about him. But he has a long, uniformly wide back and he is right where he should be on weight, which are both desperately needed features in my flock. Bird number 2 is smaller, and his back tapers more, but his coloring is better - he has a better head, bright yellow soles, medium dark eyes, a good green sheen, and relatively dark underfluff. Think I'll hold onto the big purple dude for a few more weeks and then decide. I'm going to need the pen he is in once this year's chicks start coming out of the brooder, so either he goes or one of my older cocks has to go. There is never enough space.

It's hard to make the decision about using one with a somewhat serious flaw but in my case I'm happy that I did it. Mating an off colored cock back to correctly colored females, and then continuing to mate the offspring back to correct colored birds is working well for me. I'm seeing less white on the offspring while they are young, and since so many Mottleds are too white when they are young, I'm pleased that I took the chance on breeding the off colored cock. I kept them separate from the rest of the birds, to make sure I wasn't introducing a problem into the main breeder families, but now it looks like I may be able to start mixing the family groups up and trying to darken up more of the Mottleds.

Hear ya on the space issue. I still need at least another 6 small houses for single males and brothers who can live together. My McGraw line is finally giving me some hope for their future - I had been thinking I was going to have to just butcher them all but this past year's hatch groups have improved enough to make me see they have potential. But I need more space to house more of the males. That's the one thing I hate - these darn Java males of all of my bloodlines just don't like to live together, even in a bachelor pen. My tom turkeys get along better in a bachelor pen than the darn Javas do, and turkeys are often thought to be worse than chickens about their dominance issues.

 

[Crittercuddler]

I'm getting a much lower hatch rate (30% vs 80-100%) on my Mottled Java than my other varieties (mostly Marans and olive eggers). Is this common for Javas? They also tend to take an extra day to hatch. Anyone else had this problem? I'm thinking about trying a lower humidity. Any other thoughts? Thanks!

 

[MagicChicken]

I'm getting a much lower hatch rate (30% vs 80-100%) on my Mottled Java than my other varieties (mostly Marans and olive eggers). Is this common for Javas? They also tend to take an extra day to hatch. Anyone else had this problem? I'm thinking about trying a lower humidity. Any other thoughts? Thanks!

Don't know about Mottled Javas. My Black Javas are from two different lines. One line has a low 20-30% hatch rate. The other has a higher hatch rate of 70% or more. The higher hatch rate line is less "pure" than the low hatch rate line. It clearly has had other breeds mixed in over the years. The person I got the higher hatch rate line from has been working with his birds for several years, so the other breeds' influence is not recent but it is still visible in the character traits. I have been blending the lines to improve the hatch rates, which seems to be working.

I've had the best hatch rates overall with 35-45% humidity in the incubator and 45-60% humidity in the hatcher. I'm in southern Arizona where the ambient humidity is pretty low most of the time. Your mileage may vary. But experimenting with different humidity levels could help improve things.

 

[Crittercuddler]

Don't know about Mottled Javas. My Black Javas are from two different lines. One line has a low 20-30% hatch rate. The other has a higher hatch rate of 70% or more. The higher hatch rate line is less "pure" than the low hatch rate line. It clearly has had other breeds mixed in over the years. The person I got the higher hatch rate line from has been working with his birds for several years, so the other breeds' influence is not recent but it is still visible in the character traits. I have been blending the lines to improve the hatch rates, which seems to be working.

I've had the best hatch rates overall with 35-45% humidity in the incubator and 45-60% humidity in the hatcher. I'm in southern Arizona where the ambient humidity is pretty low most of the time. Your mileage may vary. But experimenting with different humidity levels could help improve things.

Thanks. At least I'm not alone! Its mostly dry where I am as well in Central TX. I'll just keep trying and see if I can't get better results.