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Jest Another Day in Pear-A-Dice - Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm in Alberta

@Wisher1000 - are you a member of our sister site, Backyard Herds? There are a bunch of folks on that site that have LGD's; I'm sure they could at least lend some perspective. From what I've heard, an independent streak is normal; it's part of what makes the dogs so good at what they do. Unfortunately, it's also what makes them so challenging.
 
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Tara,
 
Very good advice all the way around. Tara is a wise woman.

I have to admit, I already knew the techniques she suggested, I am just not doing it as methodically as I should be. I am just going to have to work harder and be more consistent with this fellow than I have had to in the past. I have to earn that spot as pack leader with this dog. I am just used to dogs that want desperately to please me and are intimidated by my ire. Biscuit, yes, his name is Biscuit, wants only to please himself, and couldn't care less if I am mad. He thinks it's funny.

Thanks, Canuckbok, for setting my feet back on the right path. I worked with him some today as I was doing chores and he was actually cooperative. I am seeing some willingness on his part to do what I want, to get what he wants, so I think we can make it work. He absolutely hates deer flies and horse flies (who doesn't?) He almost panics when one is buzzing him. I saw him run and dive under the shop, twice, when two at a time were after him. <chuckle> Such a baby.........
 
I tackled him, held him down by the scruff of his neck while he tried to bite and scratch his way free, and told him in NO UNCERTAIN terms that chickens were not to be eaten! I ended up bloody, sweaty, and dirty, but in the end, he gave in and just lay there without fighting. It took about 45 minutes. (A funny aside: After watching the whole thing, my 14 year old boy said, "Momma, I learned something watching you fight that dog." "You did? What did you learn, Son?" "I learned that I would rather fight Daddy than you!" Heh, heh, Smart kid.)
Oh, don't get me wrong. I can handle him. I realize that most of you don't know me IRL but I am very tall and very strong. I used to be stronger than most men, but I'm older now so some (only some
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) of the younger men can out-do me now, that's why I have a desk job...

I can control the body, physically, but what I'm looking for is how do I control him mentally? Evidently, I have always been dominant enough, just naturally, that my dogs recognized it and fell in line. It hasn't happened with this boy. Now, we did have one "Come to Jesus" meeting over dead chickens (I realized later that he likely had not killed it, just snatched a dead one to eat) in which
At work, this would be called an "alpha roll." I have always thought that the K9 trainers did this too often and many times when it was not necessary, but my big pup would not give me the dead chicken, and even growled a bit when I approached him to take it. I felt drastic measures were necessary. Now, he is a little better about listening to me and will even fall over if I approach him in with hard body language, but the look on his face is like "Oh, you act mad, but I know you want to scratch my belly." Then when I turn away, he jumps up and grabs my shirt tail. He is also much better about not bothering the chickens, although he still sometimes wants to chase them in play, he has not put his mouth on any that I know of and will only try to put his feet on them when they get close to him. He is still a puppy. I fully expect him to be out of that in another year.

He will lay around all day, chewing on sticks and anything cardboard he can find, but every so often, he will jerk his head up and look into the woods, jump up and take off running toward where his attention was drawn. He disappears into the woods and will stay gone for 15 or 20 minutes and then comes back and walks around all the coops before laying back down to chew. He looks at every large bird that flies overhead and follows them until they are gone. We have had no chicken losses since he came here even though he was just a baby (8 weeks) when he got here. I bedded him down in a dog crate in the coop at night until he was too big for it, then he was allowed to sleep with the old black lab who loved him dearly. I have since had to separate them because the pup will knock the old dog down, climb straddle his whole body and chew on poor old man's head! There is nothing the old dog can do to stop him. No amount of growling or snapping at the younger (but bigger) dog will discourage the behavior and like I said, I can scream "NO!" at him till I'm blue in the face, but he will not stop.

He really is a sweet dog. He gives the most gentle kisses on my chin when I put my face down close to him, and he sits on my feet when we stop and stand a while on a walk. He wants to sit in my lap if I am sitting on the ground or on a chair, and he is in the middle of whatever I am trying to work on around the farm. He plays with our 15lb house dog and is usually careful not to hurt her. She occasionally gets mad and snarls and spits and bites him hard, but he isn't put off by it, it is just more playing to him. They got into a fight one time. They were digging under the shop after some varmint and evidently getting close, because the little one tried to chase him off from the hole and he showed her that it was his hole. The smaller dog stepped lightly around him for an hour but they were soon running, chasing, playing and wrestling again. She is the one who wrestles, he just lays on his side and she wrestles his head. That is where the falling over comes from. She runs up to him and puts her front feet on his chest, and he falls over with a 'whomp' and she jumps on his head and neck, growling, biting and shaking him, and 'fleaing' his neck and face...it's adorable.

I want him to do his job, but to listen to me and look to me for leadership - like all the other dogs I've ever owned have done, my whole life! I've never had this breed, it's so different than what I'm used to. I had a wonderful Doberman in my teens, but most of the others have been hunting or herding breeds (labs, collie, fox terriers, daschunds, and lots of mutts.)
Mrs. Wisher, I salute you!!
Any more a 25 pound Tom will wear me out if I can't get control in the first 5 min's. I don't think I could handle a large dog that long. I can pick up the front half, or the back half of the DW's Great Dane, but not both at once. This getting old stuff sucks!
Scott
 
My dear, you do know that some of the rest of us people could use advice with this type of problem?
thanks for the puppy updates!
Scott

This a public forum and my "methods" are controversial so I have chosen not to expose myself to that by e-mailing Wisher privately. I am not like those "dog whisperers" that teach people how to deal with their dogs...I am one with the dogs and that makes me very odd.
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Lots of articles tho on my dog website...from Bite Inhibition to the Alpha Roll, to a huge long one on ACD Good Vs. Bad and the Ideal ACD Owner and Home.

March 7, 2001 - ACD Good Vs. Bad:
Very good advice all the way around. Tara is a wise woman.

I have to admit, I already knew the techniques she suggested, I am just not doing it as methodically as I should be. I am just going to have to work harder and be more consistent with this fellow than I have had to in the past. I have to earn that spot as pack leader with this dog. I am just used to dogs that want desperately to please me and are intimidated by my ire. Biscuit, yes, his name is Biscuit, wants only to please himself, and couldn't care less if I am mad. He thinks it's funny.

Thanks, Canuckbok, for setting my feet back on the right path. I worked with him some today as I was doing chores and he was actually cooperative. I am seeing some willingness on his part to do what I want, to get what he wants, so I think we can make it work. He absolutely hates deer flies and horse flies (who doesn't?) He almost panics when one is buzzing him. I saw him run and dive under the shop, twice, when two at a time were after him. <chuckle> Such a baby.........

You are kind Wisher, thanks for that.
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We have a lovely saying, acronym of OBM (Optional Brain Module) to explain training some of our dogs. ACDs as pups are WAY smart...five week old is like an eight week old of regular type dog breeds. Genius dogs, very attune with their chosen human--always trouble waiting to bubble up if given an inch (bad buggers, BAD!). ACDs want nothing more than to be with you and you with them.

So the puppy training part is great...they are sitting, recalling, laying, staying, dropping items on command, herding...yeh...you figure "WOW, that was easy!" and then at some point in time, they show you the dark side. Like you never invested a second in training and you just are exasperated, pulling clumps of hair out, biting your lip, wondering, Where & what have I done wrong now!" Best thing to do, go back to puppy kindergarten. Right back to where you find they seem to some what remember and repeat on that and then go onwards. Build it all back up...like a house of cards, waved on over with a single swing of the bottle brush tail.

For Wisher, more or less said to her to read my articles and make Biscuit EARN her positive attention--every op she may. She decides when he needs loving and she decides when he needs to obey and reserves her lovin' for only the GOOD DOG we all know he is...<<somewhere inside that independent LSG lunker clunker brain of his!>>. What trips us up is we KNOW he KNOWS but like all those fine, fine dougals, he chooses to think he is boss and we need to jumble that up on him. They get way too cocky and the KING (or Queeny!), needs to be dethroned, kindly but firmly.

Training that is strong but gentle, forceful but kind, patient but firm, never violent, only stern and steadfast. And always silly happy TREATIES when they are to be rewarded having earned it. No free loving! LMBO You be a push over and they trample you's over with solid hurty doggy paws.
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Ideal ACD Owner and Home:
That's about all I am willing to post publically on the topic before I step on toes, eh. I don't train people--I live with ACDogs and we come to mutual agreements on how we are going to live together and all get along happily!
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Rick re-hosed the water feature and jest had to show me the flow...can we say GEYSER???? or silly, typical OLD GEEZER????
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Silly man...can you feel the POWER unleashed?
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He became quite a bit more sensible when we added the water hyacinth...thankfully!
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Boys and their toys...
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Water quality is fab...it is healthy subtle green and we can see the fish...just awesome! In years prior at this time of year...green thick peasoup...that UV light is a miracle cure!

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada
 
Your right Tara, I didn't think about all of the PETA types that would have a cow over what I do with my critters.
Thanks for reminding me to think before I type/post something.
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My grand-Pa taught me that a pet critter is easier to handle no matter if it is to be dinner next week or not, along with a lot of other things.
I like the upgraded water feature lots of water
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Scott
 
Your right Tara, I didn't think about all of the PETA types that would have a cow over what I do with my critters.
Thanks for reminding me to think before I type/post something.
hugs.gif

My grand-Pa taught me that a pet critter is easier to handle no matter if it is to be dinner next week or not, along with a lot of other things.
I like the upgraded water feature lots of water
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Scott

I'm just too distracted with outside stuff to do battle with someone if they have a hissy fit over some typed out misunderstanding.
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Yeh, I thought you'd enjoy the flow!
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I truly pondered...what if that egg elevates, lifts and comes crashing down like Humpty Dumpty...

Silly men...always playing around!

Tara
 

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