Jest Another Day in Pear-A-Dice - Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm in Alberta

[hennible]

Wish that article was more in depth... Read the comments too some people ha ha

 

[CanuckBock]

Heel low:

Very interesting indeed!
Scott

Happy to entertain you!

Ok, looking for some thoughts/ comments. What do you think Tara?
http://www.news24.com/Green/News/Ch...ugh-earns-award-for-German-scientist-20150324

I found the article a bit short...so did a search and rousted this one up...still does not cite the research (if it has even been published...would be nice to know how this is done).

The comments on the article you linked us to...two of them made me laugh...obviously there are idiots that have never raised chickens for eggs before that need some common sense in some hands on experiences, eh ... male or female egg tastes WHAT? and if you got lumps of blood in yer eggs, you got a line of females that are sloughing off items of themselves in the process of making their eggs...they don't need to be fertilized to have that issue, so the fella's an utter idiot...sigh!

Bioland : The hidden facts of egg production
03/02/2015 | 02:49am US/Eastern

So yeh, consumers can have another option...canvass their cities and towns and be allowed to have FOUR hens for fresh delicious REAL eggs...there are ALTERNATIVES to the markets.

I suppose it all boils down to CHEAP food...for too long now, North America has had subsidized food. When it costs someone like me THIRTY FIVE dollars to raise a chick to a year of age in FEED COSTS alone...well there is something a bit off you have to wonder, eh.

No factoring in the costs, the REAL COSTS of having our own chooks...the cost of bedding, no expenses tallied for things like; heat bulb cost, electricity for heat lamp, or pumping our well for water, lights to see, etc. Machinery to move the soiled bedding & compost it for good stewardship of the land, no recovery of the labour costs (even comparable that I had a minimum wage job instead of hanging out on the farm slopping the chooks-emptying & filling water buckets and feed pans), no depreciation or replacement costs on our buildings, no cost on what that egg to be hatched cost me...no incubation fee, no if cost recovery if I SOLD the hatching egg instead of hatching it ourselves...etc., etc., etc...

So if I use the figure of thirty five dollars to cost out what it all takes to make chicken a year old (more likely the REAL cull males that would not be BREEDERS will not really need to be grown out to a year of age...they are often ready for processing for consumption at say 20 weeks if you can see they are not going to be of breeding quality early on)...then those Rotisserie chooks at the grocery for what, $9 to $10 are a STEAL OF A DEAL--already cooked and ready to gnaw on, eh!

Then again, one does have to factor in QUALITY too...what goodness value over a mush meat is a homegrown happy meat chicken on your plate worth to you and your family? You often cannot BUY that kind of quality now can you. You have to raise it up yourself and you know what goes into your food, now don't you...what is that worth? Your birds are happy, the eggs and meat taste HAPPY...pretty hard to put a monetary value on some of this I suspect.



ALBERTA FARMER EXPRESS
March 16, 2015, front page news:

ha funny tara I woke up thinking about breeder selection today and peeked in here and just saw your post was opening it up for discussion in dixie

So I did not know you had yer own thread woman...CONGRATS...

So I cut and pasted yer question here...

So a question for everyone... How do you go about selecting your breeder birds? Is it finding a bird bringing it home... hatching chicks out how do you select from the chicks you have for those you are keeping pls be detailed explain and expand

Something that takes a whole lifetime to attain, should be easy eh...still learning and sure I will over look some important step...oh well...here goes...

Hatch one hundred day olds of the breed and variety you want to make selections for breeding prospects; grow them out for a year all the while selecting down to the top three percent...so you attain one trio, potentially two pairs (if you are EXTREMELY fortunate) of breeding prospects from the initial 100 day olds.

As the things you dislike in a breeder bird surface, remove to cull pens to continue growing out; hoping you have a dual or general purpose fowl which then means the culled females will become egg layers, the culled males will become meat...happy meat at about the age of seven months for turks/geese (we do ours later--16 months for a turk--taste is better), twenty weeks for say chooks, and maybe a coupla months for some duck breeds. If the chook/turk/duck you are not going to use for breeding is say an egg layer breed...and they are a male cull as in a Booted Bantam, they stand NO chance to even make a decent chicken soup offering, he goes on then to become a yard bird...pretty boys that are eye candy for me and the Hubby to enjoy in the yards.

Some of our YARD BIRDS in the Coop fur Sure ​

So selection process...begins with these things BEFORE what they look like...should make many laugh...I don't CARE what they l00k like at first...I care about these following list of items ABOVE ALL ELSE...Disease resistance, vigour, production, fertility, temperament, & longevity. Address the HERITAGE labelling criterion, and then one worries about what the bird looks and handles in the hand like.

Here are the first important items to address...

Disease Resistance and Vigour - If the bird cannot thrive, be healthful, and an easy keeper, we don't want to make more of those cripples--if one bird is a problem because it is unthrifty and sickly, imagine that problem times 100, times a 1,000? We make more of what we delight in or why bother breeding more...you only are making yourself and the birds miserable exponentially, eh.

So whatever diseases and disorders that reside in our biosecure facilities, let it outright kill the birds...the sooner the better. Sounds harsh and in reality, living IS harsh. If you are going to keep LIVEstock, you will ultimately have some DEADstocks. One needs to address that factor in life. Nothing here is to suffer unwittenly...the very first item I always ask about when acquiring a new critter..."How do I humanely kill the being?" because to me, that is the worst case scenario for here...putting something out of its misery and making sure its quality of life is good and good for those around it too. Responsible adult tough love stuff...blah...NOT fun but someone has to be in charge of keeping the happiness flowing.

If the poultry cannot be vigorous and thrive through whatever diseases we have on our patch of dirt, those beings are doomed to have a miserable existence. We shall not make more that cannot live well on our place.

We do not administer antibiotics to the poultry (have them here, but never used them yet) and we do not cuddle and coddle creatures that are suffering. So we had better be making more that thrive in what is here on our farm. Simply because a being lives to a year of age here, is a great way to say, they are disease resistant and possess vigour to our conditions.


Production and Fertility - If my poultry cannot do what it was originally intended to do...make MANY babies that resemble themselves, provide lots of decent well made up eggs all year round, make delicious good meat, provide decent feathers, or in the case of wild ones like the Mandarins, Shels, Swans, Pheasants...look pretty and be entertaining, we don't need to own them. I am working off the farm so I can provide just the "feed" it takes to make this place run, never mind that my spouse covers all the OTHER costs to live this life in the style we have grown accustomed to. Birds must be productive and must be fertile (in their youthful lives...retired is tired...and allowed to QUIT, eh!)...without either of these two mandatory traits in a line, extinction is the ultimate fate for that strain. Poultry are pets with benefits and those benefits are production of meat, eggs, feathers and entertainment (for the ornamental wild ones jest here to look purdy).

Mandarin Drake​

Oz Black Swans and Ruddy Shel pair
​

An example I often use in regards to PRODUCTION is the Chantecler chicken...created by Brother Wilfrid in order to provide meat and eggs to the common folk that reside here in Canada (temperatures range from +40C/104F to -53C/-63F...wait ten minutes, the change in the weather will explain why one has a great big smile on whilst wearing shorts, rubber boots and a toque!). A Chantecler chicken is a CHANTECLER only if the flock provides us with decent winter eggs in the Extra Large to Jumbo size range with the male culls giving us delicious, firm & tasty happy meat in 20 weeks time.

Buff Chantecler Fryer - 20 weeks old

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Jumbo sized WINTER eggs - December 22

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WIDE BODIED big ol' chooks...room to make eggs in and hang meat off of​

Free ranged, foraging naturally for extra goodness... living REAL lives, giving real, happy foods for our table

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Temperament If we do not LIKE our birds and they do not LIKE (or at least tolerate) us back, remind me again why we bother to do something that costs so much in resources like money and our time and energies? We choose to keep birds because it is a labour of intense love and devotion. We do not keep birds with temperaments we do not like; no flighty birds, no excessively unwarranted mean birds, and no unnecessary wildness! We encourage calmness, happiness, content birds in stress-free, zero predation conditions...this is paramount to the smooth running of an operation this big and varied. No unwarranted aggressiveness in inappropriate conditions...no problem with a protective hen or roo...I expect them to have attitudes in the proper situations but I must be able to work with my dependents. If they need to be handled, I need to be able to do that without a rodeo taking place. I owe a duty of care to them and a duty of care to myself to keep myself healthy, whole and functioning. We need to be able to house big happy bachelor male groupings in calm happy flocks. We keep about the same number of males to females for genetic diversity purposes to conserve and preserve our stocks here. Boys must be able to get along in all male groups. No trouble makers, eh. Our birds must be good natured or we cannot do what we do to keep these lines alive and well. Birds must have amiable temperaments with low flight tolerances so we can enjoy them and keep them well.

Longevity We want our birds to live long prosperous, healthy, enjoyable lives. I hate saying goodbye to the GOOD ONES...

Chantelle; one of our foundation Chantecler Standard hens from 2008​

We have many of our original foundation birds alive and well...eight year old heritage turkeys and Chantecler chickens, 15 year old ducks and geese...pheasants too. I love my oldsters...they have earned a place here and our respect and responsibility to see them into their golden years in style and happiness. Unlike commercial factory farm animals and birds, we keep ours longer than one year of age and enjoy lines that are productive for years and years after the factory farms would have killed them.

Bart & Louise, antiquity heritage Sweetgrass turkeys - hatched June 2008​

Another important aspect to address...because we raise heritage birds...our poultry is HERITAGE poultry as defined by the following terms...

Look way up, to the right thar past LoREDa...that's an image of this in one of the Chant pens...

APA 1998 SOP Schilling's air brushed photo of Chantecler pair from 1923

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Mr. Schilling did compositions of Wyandottes, Booteds, Brahmas and Chanteclers...got my chickens covered. The 1998 APA SOP is filled with his artwork...magnificent representations of the breeds and varieties....love them so much.

As the Breeder and human suppose to be in charge, it is your job to know what defines your breed and variety for you...know it upside down and backwards and how the words are applied to the birds in the flesh covered in pretty feathers! Something to study and become knowledgeable about. You, the Breeder are responsible for knowing the ideals for your breed/variety as per your interpretation of the words in the SOP's.

General chickeness factors like how a good foot and toes are made up, what a decent skeleton is (for your breed), what a proper skull is for the breed, healthful glistening eyes, good beak/bill, feather textures, length of plumage, number of feathers & amount of down undercolour to webbing in all areas of feather locations, proper colours for shanks, eyes, earlobes, what proper combs and wattle types are required, wing form and correct carraige...whole lotsa stuff that are easily found listed in the Standards of Perfections.

When a bird is held in the hand, they must feel balanced...the bone structure must be correct, the plumage the correct, the feel of the entire body is balanced and proper, the attitude of the bird is correct for the breed, the colour pattern of the feathers for the variety ... entire books are written on just breeds and their varieties and how to judge for those qualities and breed for their continued improvements.


I teach and have judged Showmanship to ready persons for competition...who here knows how to examine a bird in hand?

You carry the bird in, pose the bird on a table and then examine in hand follows. The examine in hand is done like the ones that sanctioned judges do at the poultry shows.

Examine in Hand:

Exam the Head / Examining the Wings / Examining the Undercolour / Width of Body / Checking the Breast / Depth of Abdomen / Width of Pubic Bones / Examining Feet & Legs​

As a Fancier, you are to do this quick exam in hand every time you inspect a bird...for breeding, for acquisition, for healthfulness, for culling...even as a general calming and taming procedure to ready your birds for showing (called fitting or training for show). One does this daily whilst doing your chores and it should be second nature to a Fancier. Should be...

You would be surprised at just how many people are absolutely clueless as to how to properly catch and HOLD a bird. How to properly remove them from a show cage or even put them in a show cage properly with the least stress and fuss to the bird and handler.

Many people do not touch their birds...some overly touch them too and do what I deem is maul them, but to counter the opposite, many never lay a finger on a bird...buying them untouched...blows my mind. You need to hold a bird and do that competently to be able to assess the pluses and minuses that bird possesses when examining them in hand.

One of the reasons to avoid acquiring auction stock past auctions can often be dumping grounds for culls that are really BAD...not being able to actually hold the bird leaves one at a huge disadvantage when purchasing auction birds. I remember one duck in a box, you could never see her other side...why, she was blind in the other eye and only stood so her seeing eye could look out of the box--poor thing, eh. Bird missing feet, infertile, roach backs, ill or malformed skeleton wise...miscoloured, incorrect listing for the breed it says it is; all sorts of issues that are hidden in an auction boxed bird. Besides the communicative diseases so rampant (one sick bird infects ALL the birds present and infects the people attending too), most often the bird is not a keeper and is at the auction for a very good reason!

Who here knows how to hold and examine a bird? A chicken?

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

Edit to add more kinds of poultry...than jest chooks.

 

[Arcnova]

I'm new to chicken genetics and was told this was the place to go to learn more. Would anybody be game for helping me identify the color genes (maybe breed genes later when the chicks get older) in my mutt chicks.
My MIL and I take in unwanted chickens ( most of them stay with her since her place is bigger and out in the country ) and I've been wanting to experiment with the genetics. I'd like to produce a layer line and a meat line and play around with the colors along the way. I'm not at all concerned with breeding to type and my chicks are thoroughly mixed up so I'm starting essentially from scratch. I figure it'll take ten or twelve years to isolate any color I go for since I want to establish body type and production first.

Question: what feather types do better in areas with cold winters? Soft, full feathering or soft, close feathering or stiff, close feathering? I have some of each.
I know I want rose or pea combs against frost bite but I don't think I want to add in any feather legged birds because our summers get pretty warm and I know that birds rely primarily on their legs to cool off.
Advice?

What breeds outside of Cornish are good for broad, deep breasts? I think there's some Orpington and some brahma in some of my chicks and my half marans Roo has a very broad chest. I have a half marans hen from the same breeder but she's really small. (I think the are from the same roo but different hens) Could I breed for type first and then work on size or would the small size be hard to breed out without losing the body type with it?

What is everyone's opinion of leg type? Does it matter? What do you thing looks nicer, long or short legs?

I had a 1/2 Orpington, 1/4 barred Plymouth rock, 1/4 Easter egger rooster that dressed out at a very tender and tasty six+ lbs at five months old. Unfortunately every rooster his father sired was super aggressive just like their sire so his line is lost. I'd like to end up with something similar in my meat line but without the aggression. I have some orpingtons (not show birds, feed store stock) ordered with that in mind as well as a couple of Austra whites. I think with the half marans roo they would make a good start. Any other ideas/ reasons my choice may not be appropriate?

I know I'm mixing things up pretty liberally here but I figure the best way to really learn this genetics thing is to start out with mixtures and learn to isolate what you want and eliminate what you don't want. If I ever get a really solid handle on this breeding thing I'd love to help out with one or two preservation breeds

 

[Arcnova]

Could you post pictures and instructions of how to handle and assess a bird or direct me to such. This is something I need to learn. I don't have a particular breed now but I will be developing a couple of lines of birds essentially from scratch and I need to be able to assess them in order to move steadily toward my final goal. Right now I have no idea how to do that.

 

[bamadude]

Not me Tara. Learn me some more stuff

 

[bamadude]

Hi @Arcnova.
Welcome to Tara's thread.

 

[Arcnova]

Thanks! I hope I'm not stepping on any toes starting a new topic here.

 

[bamadude]

Thanks! I hope I'm not stepping on any toes starting a new topic here.

No way. Tara loves sharing her knowledge. We all learn by asking questions. She will be glad u are here.

 

[Arcnova]

Cool!

 

[bamadude]

Those questions you asked are well above my pay grade. Im just the good looking secretary here.
Tara will be in shortly. There are some cool pics on this thread. Check em out