Could you ship eggs if you even wanted to?
Scott
Scott
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Could you ship eggs if you even wanted to?
Scott
:An inbred line of HEALTHY birds is not something to be terrified of. I suggest persons get three pairs from a reputable breeder and keep at least three males on the go for breeding purposes...that keeps up the diversity and for those with several varieties, another good suggestion is to cross varieties (not breeds...I myself rarely cross a breed unless for a specific purpose like making large Chants into bantam ones!) of similar foundations to give the strains a boost of hybrid vigour in a positive way. All strains will hit a point in time where inbreeding depression seems in play, if you can breed through this point instead of rushing out and getting new blood (and along with that, whatever may be bad in that line will come in with that new bird too); the birds produced will end up being even stronger for having pulled through this trial and test period.
Mentioned is "double mating" and I am often surprised when someone contacts me, asking for say breeder birds for "Exhibition Pastel Call Ducks" and I reply back, do you want to breed for MALES or FEMALES for showing or both? You get the HUH...good gack already! We have lost so much common knowledge in poultry...we are not only having to reinvent the wheel, we are seeing persons completely and utterly clueless about what was once thought common knowledge in the fancy. Ask someone to examine a bird in hand...yeh, that simple a task and you get HUH? Touch a bird you are not intending on HUGGING? Whatever for!
Just by handling the birds, you are doing investigative research NO amount of just peering at them will EVER do...crooked breast bone? Instantly feel that...in your hand! Split wing...instantly see that when examining the wings with bird in hand. Even a wry tail can hide itself well and show up when you are just about to celebrate you have that magical breeder bird ready to begin making more of...use that wry tailed one and heaven help your strain in removing it in future generations.
Touch the birds...hold the birds, quit hugging and kissing them...and treat them like the potentials to do great good or great evil...be as picky as you are able to choose the BEST to make more from...build up, not stagnate and slide down.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...onservation-farm-in-alberta/830#post_14978123:
Number of hatching eggs required to get you a trio worth breeding from...if shipped hatching eggs, best average expectations is that half will not hatch, so to get the top three percent for a prospective breeding trio that you will raise to age of an adult-hen/cock of one year of age (seven percent of all hatched day olds will expire, expected death rate in a good line of birds--not all birds hatched are hatched to be expected to survive to adulthood)...you need 214 hatching eggs shipped to you (I know...who is gonna have that many to ship but bear with my scenario, because this is what hatching eggs must be compared to when a good start of a trio of birds is compared to...apples compared to apples, eh). So half the shipped hatching eggs won't hatch, leaves you 107 day olds, 7% pass on before reaching adulthood, leaves you 100 grown out birds to select down to best TOP three as breeding prospects. 107 day olds - 7% mortality rate = 100 birds at 3% retention = one trio as breeding prospects.
What do hatching eggs sell for...two bucks a piece I will guess to suggest? So you ordered 214 hatching eggs (no idea the shipping on that gross) at two dollars each = $428 cost of hatching eggs plus estimate of what, $100 for shipping and packing (probably WAY wrong and too cheap cheep...dunno), so gives us, what round it to like $530 for hatching eggs to arrive at our place, usually fee to incubate a chick 21 days in an incubator is two bucks a hatched bird, half won't hatch, so 107 day olds x $2 to incubate = $214 plus hatching egg cost/shipping of $530 = $744 for 107 day olds...
How much you think it costs to feed day old to beginning of their second year of life (chick->pullet/cockerel->hen/cock 1 year old)...365 days at what feeding costs?
http://www.nutrenaworld.com/knowledge-center/poultry/how-much-does-a-chicken-eat/index.jsp:
Ten pounds of starter at $25 fer a 50 pound bag = fifty cents a week x ten weeks = $5.00 for first ten weeks of life for chick.
Then 1.5 pounds per week to one year of age when pullet/cockerel becomes HEN/COCK = 52 weeks less 10 weeks ($5), 42 weeks x 1.5 pounds = 63 pounds @ $0.50 / pound = $31.50 plus first 10 weeks @ $5.00 = $36.50 for a female/male chicken to reach one year of age. Ready to be used as a prospective breeder bird.
So when I fly off with an estimate of $35 for a POL hen...I am also saying that YOU could have included in that figure other REAL costs to raise that bird. You are using some bedding (oat straw here), some brooding heat (electricity and heater lamp that will eventually have to be replaced when used up), something put by for deprecation on your buildings, facilities...now nothing EVER is tallied up in the expenses for my time, labour and love...that's a given out in a hobby, eh.
So I like to round down and keep things moderately cheap so make it $36.50 to an even $35 for a year old chicken would be a good valid expense if we look at the simple fact you should not be using a bird for breeding until you can actually ASSESS its breeding characteristics.
So 107 birds, seven die some time along the way, ends up to get one hundred (100) birds to one year of age at $35 per bird = $3,500 in feeding costs alone (no bedding, brooding, no depreciation on buildings, equipment, no LABOUR for you whatsoever<--yer dumb love made it so you really shoulda got that job at McDonalds on minimum wage, eh!).
So hatching egg cost of $744 dollars, feeding of 107 for one year at $3,500...$4,244 for a breeding prospect TRIO of birds from hatching eggs shipped to you...that's $1,414.67 per bird...round to $1,414 per bird in yer trio.
Now does that sound high...perhaps and makes you ponder how some prefer these hatching eggs over hand picked breeding prospects from breeders, eh! Cheaper...comparing apples to apples, is that cheaper??![]()
How does that ALL compare to fifteen years ago when we bought our breeder foundation chickens.
Fifteen years ago, we paid $100 per bird for breeding prospects (ignoring the shipping and four hour round trip plus our time and lost wages to go get them at the airport). One hundred dollars bought us a chicken for breeding ... 15 years ago. Price of a fifty pound bag of layer ration was $7 per bag in the feed store back then. Now if you go swing by the Feed Store...same bag of feed is $24 per fifty pound bag. I use feed which is the biggest cost in raising birds (ignoring the cost to put up facilities, wear & tear on equipment, bedding, etc., and that labour we do outta LOVE) so...
$100 per bird at $7 per 50 pound layer ration = increase in feed is 3.4285 x $100 purchase price of breeder bird = $342.85 per one year old breeder bird at today's feed prices.
Trio is three times that amount = $1,028.57 for a trio of breeder birds as of 2015 (no expenses to get them here included and that runs about $150 airfare). So add in $150 to get them shipped to our yard...trio is $1,178.58 per bird that's $392.86 in 2015 dollar using the cost of layer ration to estimate cost changes.
Pretty much costs you 3.6 times MORE for one trio produced from hatching eggs compared to the same costs of a trio of one year old breeding prospects from a breeder for us 15 years ago.
Now if you want to IGNORE the difference between fifteen years back and jest say you pay a breeder $100 per bird (with a fly in fee of $50 per bird), then the cost of one trio of birds from a breeder is $450 for the trio. Compared to the same quality of breeding prospects from hatching eggs, $4,244 for the trio, price is 9.4 times MORE than breeder birds from the breeders ($450).
The cost of getting the same quality of breeding birds from hatching eggs just simply make NO sense. I would far sooner purchase adult birds (two year olds are divine...by simply living that long, they have already proven their worth) from a reliable breeder that I had built up a good rapport with than deal with all the hassles and potential diseases found in hatching eggs. Most often if the breeder has any scruples about the betterment of their choice in breeds and varieties, they are not at all interested in sending you hatching eggs--that avenue usually results in people thinking they may get something for very little and we all know nothing good ever comes easy for nothing invested (besides, if it is the top three percent you retain, we just saw HATCHING EGGs are expensive, yes?). Quality needs to be worked at because hard work and working smart nets rewards! A real true breeder would want to set you up with what they deem is a good start and see you succeed and continue the existence and progression forward with their cherished lines. Many of us breeders do this as a passionate labour of love and we all know that love knows no bounds.
There are no 100% guarantees for no diseases when acquiring new stock. What lives in my yard here might outright harm & kill your yard fulla chooks. It is what it is and the reason why many of us breed for natural resistance to the factors & situations our birds are exposed to on a daily basis. You have to decide for yourself if the risks warrant the acquisition of new blood.![]()
I have heard the excuse that there are no parasites in hatching eggs but holy Hannah, if you have parasites in birds from a breeder, you have definitely chosen the WRONG breeder to be getting birds from.
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As far as hatching eggs not transferring disease, what a load of rot that one is...here is a list of disorders transferred IN HATCHING EGGS...
From the Chicken Health Book by Gail Damerow, page 215:
:
Diseases Transmitted to Eggs
There are many infectious organisms that can be transferred from the hen to the egg that may cause the egg to die. In some cases, the infectious organism may infect the egg, yet the embryo may continue developing, and may even hatch, carrying the organism at hatch time. If an organism is passed from an infected hen directly into an egg, and then into the developing embryo, this is called vertical transmission. The term vertical transmission is also used to describe transmission of an infectious agent from a parent to an egg during fertilization, during egg development in the oviduct of the hen or immediately after oviposition. Once the egg is laid, some infectious organisms can pass through the eggshell upon contact with contaminated feces, urates or bedding. This is also considered vertical transmission if infection occurs immediately after laying. Some organisms are transmitted from the ovary to the egg, and this is called transovarian transmission. Infectious organisms harbored in the oviduct can also be passed into the egg prior to the shell being formed. Some organisms can infect eggs if contents from the cloaca contaminate the surface of the eggs, and then penetrate the egg. The other method of transmission of infectious organisms is by horizontal transmission. Some ways that horizontal transmission occurs are by preening, inhalation, copulation, insect or animal bites, ingestion, contact with contaminated equipment or fighting.
It seems obvious that prior to the egg membranes and shell being applied to it, the egg would be susceptible to infection by numerous infectious organisms. Even though the eggshell appears solid, it contains microscopic pores that can allow liquids and organisms of small enough size into the egg. The pores allow the transfer of gasses, as well.
Her article goes on to discuss diseases transferred in hatching eggs such as:
- Bacterial diseases like Chlamydia psittaci, Salmonella, Staphylococcus bacteria, and E. coli.
- Mycoplasma is a HUGE concern for poultry persons...this one is uncurable according to many here on BYC.
- Viral diseases like Newcastle's Disease, Herpesviruses, etc.
- Parasites like adult ascarids (roundworms) can even be passed on in hatching eggs.
Whilst this quote above is more an avian type based source for pet birds, Margaret A. Wissman, D.V.M., D.A.B.V.P. is a very good resource since she is an exotic bird vet. Her explanation is educated, concise and easily understood. I have chosen this small quote as an example of her good advice...you may go to the link I have posted to read more should you wish to.
Some of the disease are zoonoses which simply means they are diseases that humans may get from animals...and birds. Chlamydia is one of those as are E. coli and Staph. Good hygiene is a great deterrent after being around any poultry and livestock...never mind the family dog or cat!![]()
This is also a great source to have a read up on...
Common Poultry Diseases
University Of Florida IFAS Extension - Authors: G.D. Butcher, J.P. Jacob, and F.B. Mather
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/PS/PS04400.pdf
The most worrisome hatching egg disorder to me personally is the spread of the Chronic Respiratory Diseases. These are called stress diseases and are long, noxious, debilitating diseases that affect production of meat and eggs and generally make poultry like chickens and turkeys unthrifty and often quite a miserable existence for them; eating but not gaining weight, ruffled up and unhappy to say the least. While some may tout that these CRD problems are curable...I have yet to see any scientific proof to these claims and many of the supposed off label cures render the eggs produced unfit for human consumption and the bird itself should never be processed as food either. Personally, if I had to treat a bird (which thankfully, I have never had to do), I would solemnly vow never to eat its eggs, its meat or any of the production from the next generation it produced either. Might eat the F3's production perhaps...
I would only medicate a line of birds (Ampro is fine in turkey and chicken starters but never for waterfowl!) as a very last ditch effort to save the strain if it warranted such dramatic and drastic measures. I did not get birds to taint what they produce for my family with antibiotics and other unsavory and scary remedies. Factory farms might feed antibiotics to get their products to market, but we choose not to and want healthy good foods from our happy and healthy birds.
It is hardly any wonder why we bought our birds from breeders that also only retained top three percent for breeding prospects from lines that were kept and worked upon for literally decades--old line of old birds constantly worked upon at improving them. One needs that many for selection from if you are to begin to make and retain any improvements within a line of poultry. Jest because US humans decide some trait is desirable don't always mean the birds agree and will oblige us with our desires, eh. Murray raised up 290 birds to send us nine, Hughes always hatched out 300 White Wyandottes for three trios to show and breed from every single year for decades and he did the same with his Buff bantam Brahmas--300 hundred day olds to retain 9. The added bonus that true breeders are working on true breed type and decent variety expressions...that they naturally will select using years of experience, a well mated trio of birds for your good start. I simply cannot fathom how someone bothers with hatching eggs when you factor in the same quality of 3 percent kept back as potential breeders!
Interesting calculations, eh.![]()
Doggone & Chicken UP!
Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada
So when Fred says he has 300 Campines laying eggs for nine months and only includes the cost of feed...did those 300 females magically appear to lay those eggs?
NOPE...he needed to also add in the costs of RAISING those females to the whimsical term POL (point of lay...when the female begins to lay eggs!).
POL estimate:
So POL I will go with first ten weeks is $5...then because the females are suppose to begin laying at what....
Fred said:
So half his flock was 18 to 20 weeks, let's say 19 weeks in the middle; 19 less ten weeks ($5)...9 weeks x 1.5 pounds per week costs $0.50/pound is $6.75 = $5 (ten weeks) + $6.75 (nine weeks) = $11.75 per 150 pullets @ 19 weeks and at POL = $1,762.50 for 150 laying pullets fed to 19 weeks of age and are at the POL state...
The rest of Fred's laying flock was older hens, so to bring them to lay, we will stash them all into one flock of 150 POL hens @ $36.50 each... = 150 hens x $36.50 = $5,475 for older birds.
Now those females of 150 birds should have offset their POL costs of $5,475 with eggs, so at his results of 14 eggs per female per month and a year of laying to get to a new beginning... gives us 25,200 eggs (150 birds x 14 eggs per month x one year) worth sold today (we'll say a dozen eggs sold is $3.50 so per egg rate sold is $0.29 per egg, 25,200 eggs x $0.29 = $7,350) less feed costs to make the eggs ($3,240.53 for nine months needs to be for a full year...so cost per month is $360.06 and therefore cost per year is $4,320.71) = $3,029.29.
150 hens that cost $5,475 to get to POL LESS egg sale value of $3,029.29 = $2,445.71
150 pullets at POL cost in feed $1,762.50 + 150 hens at $2,445.71 = COST of 300 pullets and hens combined is $4,208.21
Now if you are a keener, you would have noted that Fred said that his hens came from England. Not produced by him but his partner from England...well that would be some cost then...because those birds would have been sent from England over to Ontario Canada...I am expecting that cost a pretty penny, eh. But we just want to ignore that aspect...and just pretend that Fred raised the hens to have half his 300 layer flock members contributing eggs to his hypothetical example of whether Campines are money makers...White Leghorns soon debunked ALL heritage fowls that were egg layers...from Minorcas on thru. Commercial swill eggers were produced from even the Leghorns...so that then debunked all heritage birds...for the factory farmed created commercial type layer. Kept for one laying cycle and gone...all burnt up from churning out outputs from inputs. Oh well....![]()
That be enough for a Friday...sure I have zip zapped some calculation but that can wait for me to clear my head and go back and review...later....got a truck to be happy about rejoicing on.
Later, eh!![]()
Doggone & Chicken UP!
Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada
This is why ClaraBELL was acquired...she is a great DEMO bird.![]()
Here's her feeties...
You have alot of control with your fingers evenly spaced out, under the bird's belly.
Now if this was a REAL LIVE chicken...about now, there would be animal cruelty persons screaming in the WINGS...
"Put her DOWN right side up!!! Walk away from that Chook...away!"![]()
Hurly bird...whirly hurly bird...![]()
Even plushy ClaraBELL looks a tad relieved to be right side up again.![]()
See how nicely nestled she sits in the palm of yer hand...Is that a glare, stinky eye ClaraBELL...am I making even a plush bird ANGRY BIRD...better break into a relaxing enjoyable sing song and sooth the angry birds...soothing song...of SIXTEEN CHICKENS AND A TAMBOURINE...eh...![]()
Buck Shot & Benny - Sixteen Chickens and a Tambourine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5l4s_bNdFI
Sixteen Chickens and a Tambourine
by Roy Acuff:
As I run across the tater patch
To see if my ole hen had hatched
She jumped up a singin' a tine
Sixteen chickens and a tambourine
CHORUS
Sixteen chickens and a tambourine
Singin' tru-ra a rootie da day
Funniest sight I ever seen
Sixteen chickens and a tambourine!
Groslin' paint and a gander rod
A hump backed mule a plowin' up sod
An old hound dog and a lighter not
A guzzlin' quill and a dabblin' pot
Wake up Jake up Kindle up your light
See Grand Mammy and a pole cat fight
Gobblin' pig and a jumpin' bean
16 chickens and a tambourine
(Chorus)
A throbbin' stub and a knocked kneed cat
A bobblin' shank and a dingle bat
A cross eyed goat in the Gall-Berry bush
A roxlin rod and a sniffle tush
(Chorus)
Tara, you do have your fun, don't you!![]()
Thanks for the re-posts and reminders.
Scott
I know what you mean about your hamburgers Tara. The restaurants all do that here but, so much spices and sauces and garbage on them you can't taste the meat. Same goes for steaks. However if you dropped down to USA you can find much cheaper food with all that junk piled on it.
Noticed two things in your doggy pictures - they swap crates - sometimes Lacy is in the taller one, and other times it is Emmy. Then in one photo where is a thin white (poster board ??) between the two crates - are they misbehaving?