Just curious who else is living super frugal

[DennisK]

Yeah, we didn't get ahold of it, we made it ourselves!

After the tests, our #1 suspect is not the hay we've been feeding the sheep, and thus their manure. Testing showed sheep manure had no effect on the sprouts, other than positive. Our new suspect is actually the straw we've been using for bedding, both for sheep and chickens!

Raised bed #2 showed damage and limited sprouting on the test. This was a brand new bed filled with tree leaves composted with litter from the chicken house. We use the 'deep litter' method in there. 6 inches of straw, in our climate, with a little diatomaceous earth, stays dry and odor free for a long time. We shovel it out, mix it with leaves, wet it down good, and let it compost. Same with the sheep bedding. Once wet, it begins to heat up, due to bacterial action (you can see steam on cold mornings) and in a few months it has changed considerably!

The only thing that was the same in the 2 beds was straw! Chickens never ate the hay, nor did the sheep eat the chicken feed. Ergo; straw must be the culprit. Since straw is the by-product of either wheat or oat production, whoever grew it must have been using those herbicides on his crops. I can't test the straw directly, only the compost made from it, so that's a long time to wait to check a product. To be safe, we will be using alternative products from now on, or not composting it.

We do have a sawmill about a mile from us. They cut lumber from Douglas Fir trees only. They have a small mountain of sawdust that they sell for a few bucks a pickup load, and they load it for you. I'm thinking of composting some of that. It's not the recycled, toxic stuff you mentioned, so it should be O.K.

Boy, what I'd give to have grazing land like you have, but then, I'm lucky to have what I have!

These days, we just never know what we are buying! I would have never thought that hay would be the culprit. Sawdust seems like a great idea. Jennifer tells me that it needs to be watered down so that something in it (?) can leach out – after that, it is great as it retains water – kind of like the hugelkultur thing.

 

[erinszoo]

Quote:
Kassandra on the Okies in the BYC thread is trying this I think. She might be willing to talk to you about it. You can also go to permies.com to see video on it.

 

[erinszoo]

Quote:
Uh, yes you can wash off salmonella unless it's not on the surface of the egg. But almost always salmonella is passed on through exposure to poop and it can be killed by washing the eggs with either a mild soap or a small amount of bleach in the water. Typically salmonella comes from reptiles more often than chickens. Salmonella can also be killed off by cooking the food, so unless you're leaving poop on your eggs, cracking them open and eating them raw, it shouldn't really ever be an issue. Plus salmonella increases in potency, there are more bugs to infect someone, the longer the product has been around. In other words you are more likely to get salmonella from store bought eggs that have been three weeks or more in being delivered to your fridge than by any eggs fresh from the farm even if they are covered in poop. My mom is veterinary parasitologist and taught vet school for over 30 years, stuff like this was dinner time conversation at our house. If you're talking raw vegies, it does not get INTO the pores of the food. It is passed on by improper washing. Again even if it wasn't washed properly, if it was cooked it would have killed it off. The combination of not washing properly and not cooking too is a problem.

 

[erinszoo]

Quote:
No, the original poster said non-heirloom seeds had proven to be easier to germinate and produce vegies. In this instance, NON-HEIRLOOM does NOT = GMO. The whole heirloom, non-heirloom debate is just ridiculous anyway. The term heirloom wasn't even used until 1986 and the ONLY common thing in the hundred of various definitions for an heirloom is that it is "not sold through commercial companies but rather handed down from person to person". Therefore, there is no such thing as an heirloom seed company nor an heirloom seed that you can buy from anywhere. As for the choice of either growing heirloom or paying for cancer treatments, that's rather an extreme view unless you are saying that you know definitively that all cancer is caused by chemicals in the environment. Genetics have more to do with cancer than chemicals. My father has leukemia. It's caused by a genetic defect that occurred from a virus he got. Had nothing to do with non-heirloom plants or seeds or organic gardening of any kind. He pays $4000 a month for treatment which has caused him to have heart failure which requires another $1000 a month in medication to keep him from dying. Trust me, I know about cancer treatments. Does that make me live in fear for my life that because I grew a hybrid tomato and ate it that I'm going to die of cancer? NO. It doesn't. It makes me want to stay home so I will never catch a virus from anyone ... but that would be ridiculous.

And what does any of that have to do with living frugally? Living frugally is about doing the best with what you have here and now, not living in fear constantly of something that may or may not happen. I'm sure that isn't the popular definition though ...

 

[marlo1968]

Kassandra on the Okies in the BYC thread is trying this I think. She might be willing to talk to you about it. You can also go to permies.com to see video on it.

Thank you, I read an article on it last night. Very interesting concept. I like the idea of very low water consumption or no water consumption. Plus the raised bed that allows for tending with less bending.

 

[Spifflove]

No, the original poster said non-heirloom seeds had proven to be easier to germinate and produce vegies. In this instance, NON-HEIRLOOM does NOT = GMO. The whole heirloom, non-heirloom debate is just ridiculous anyway. The term heirloom wasn't even used until 1986 and the ONLY common thing in the hundred of various definitions for an heirloom is that it is "not sold through commercial companies but rather handed down from person to person". Therefore, there is no such thing as an heirloom seed company nor an heirloom seed that you can buy from anywhere. As for the choice of either growing heirloom or paying for cancer treatments, that's rather an extreme view unless you are saying that you know definitively that all cancer is caused by chemicals in the environment. Genetics have more to do with cancer than chemicals. My father has leukemia. It's caused by a genetic defect that occurred from a virus he got. Had nothing to do with non-heirloom plants or seeds or organic gardening of any kind. He pays $4000 a month for treatment which has caused him to have heart failure which requires another $1000 a month in medication to keep him from dying. Trust me, I know about cancer treatments. Does that make me live in fear for my life that because I grew a hybrid tomato and ate it that I'm going to die of cancer? NO. It doesn't. It makes me want to stay home so I will never catch a virus from anyone ... but that would be ridiculous.

And what does any of that have to do with living frugally? Living frugally is about doing the best with what you have here and now, not living in fear constantly of something that may or may not happen. I'm sure that isn't the popular definition though ...

Non organic = GMO. Heirloom possibly would not be GMO because GMO crops are designed so that you have to buy them from Monsanto. Yes most people don't worry about the future. And if I did not have children, I would not worry. I do have children so I do think about them. Some people don't. Gee, why is little Johnny Autistic? Gee, why does little Johnny have a big tumor? It must be genetic. Ya, thats it, someone in a big white labcoat said so so it must be so. [there is a genetic component to cancer. However google "breast cancer up 10,000 percent."]

We live in a world where those who have the knowledge are counting on those who don't to have apathy, myopathy, and only care about filling their stomachs tonight. But we come from people who had to plan ahead if they wanted to live through the winter. We stand at the dawn of a new age where knowledge has been democratized. Where mankind is for the first time in history politically aware. We can either take it or we can take it back. The choice is yours. [even if you dont believe gmo is a bad thing, understand that one company or a small group of companies will have control over the world's food supply. My chickens depend on me. I take their eggs. They don't seem to mind.]

As for me, I don't worry about the future. I found the truth the same place it always was. Of course that requires daily reading...

 

[nok13]

sorry but that is incorrect;
i also worked with reptiles, zoo animals (monkeys cats, local wild animals) and for vets; but my daughter now works with botanics in a national botanical garden and research facility and she also told me that the latest theories are that certain types of salomonellas DO use plants:

Salmonella enterica serovar typhimurium (S. typhimurium) is a facultative endopathogen and the causative agent of various human diseases ranging from enteritis to typhoid fever. It is responsible for salmonellosis, which is the most frequent food-borne disease with around 1.5 billion yearly infections worldwide (WHO). In animals and humans, Salmonella actively enters epithelial and other cells in order to replicate and spread through the organism. We focused our attention on the question whether, similar to the situation in mammals, Salmonella can also invade plant cells. For this purpose, S. typhimurium was marked with green fluorescent protein (GFP). Three hours post-inoculation of liquid medium with immerged seedlings, GFP-marked Salmonella were localized inside root hairs and at 20 hours post-inoculation, inside rhizodermal. To our knowledge, this is the first report of an infection of the plant cytoplasm by a human enteropathogen. Salmonella was also found to form biofilm-like structures on the surface of roots and leaves, preferentially colonizing regions around emerging lateral roots and woundedtissues. These data demonstrate thatSalmonella has the ability to enter and proliferate inside plant cells.(http://www.uni-giessen.de/cms/fbz/fb09/institute/ipaz/abt/phyto/ag/schikora---

quoting directly from this site, i hope thats not a problem with copyright issues) remove if need be'

and the other info: also from a site: science 20.

Work by the Unité de Recherche en Génomique Végétale (URGV) in Evry, France, and the Max F. Perutz Laboratories (MFPL) in Vienna, Austria, has now shown that this is not entirely true. (referring here to washing vegggies gets rid of saolmonella- my comment)

Work carried out by a team led by geneticist Prof. Heribert Hirt, and published today in PloS ONE, shows that the strain of bacteria known as Salmonella typhimurium can also invade, and multiply inside, plant cells. It is already known that Salmonella can survive for up to 900 days in contaminated soils, which creates a rich source of infection for plant material. However, Prof. Hirt's team can now show that bacteria from such a source can actively achieve the infection of plant cells, thereby disproving the previous assumption that infection was coincidental and - as regards the bacteria - passive.
"


these are blurbs but they show definate examples of what i was discussing. they are not alternative sites or 'wierd info' sites.
the thing about salomonella is that normal people can build up resistance to some kinds; and some peopel are carriers. my yuongest daughter is a carrier; not symtpmatic but she has amounts in her digestive system. never suffered from symptoms.

 

[Totalcolour]

Non organic = GMO. Heirloom possibly would not be GMO because GMO crops are designed so that you have to buy them from Monsanto. Yes most people don't worry about the future. And if I did not have children, I would not worry. I do have children so I do think about them. Some people don't. Gee, why is little Johnny Autistic? Gee, why does little Johnny have a big tumor? It must be genetic. Ya, thats it, someone in a big white labcoat said so so it must be so. [there is a genetic component to cancer. However google "breast cancer up 10,000 percent."]

Organic is a method of raising crops. GMO is not a method of anything. It is a designation of type. Therefore it cannot be non organic. You can raise any crop "organically", even a GMO seed can be grown organically, because organically raised is a method!

 

[Peep_Show]

Organic is a method of raising crops. GMO is not a method of anything. It is a designation of type. Therefore it cannot be non organic. You can raise any crop "organically", even a GMO seed can be grown organically, because organically raised is a method!

x2

It's external vs. internal. Organic is how something is raised (non-manufactured nutrients v. chemicals applied externally). GMO is how something is made (modifying the genetics at a micro-level inside the DNA vs. natural hybridization). Heirloom is a designation...an adjective, if you will.

Heirlooms can be raised organically or inorganically. GMO's can also be raised organically.

 

[Spifflove]

Organic is a method of raising crops. GMO is not a method of anything. It is a designation of type. Therefore it cannot be non organic. You can raise any crop "organically", even a GMO seed can be grown organically, because organically raised is a method!

This is from the free wiki:
Organic farming is a form of agriculture that relies on techniques such as crop rotation, green manure, compost and biological pest control. Organic farming uses fertilizers and pesticides but excludes or strictly limits the use of manufactured (synthetic) fertilizers, pesticides (which include herbicides, insecticides and fungicides), plant growth regulators such as hormones, livestock antibiotics, food additives, genetically modified organisms,[1] human sewage sludge, and nanomaterials.[2]


I would appreciate anyone who has a link to an official USDA source.
.