Keeping Chickens Free Range

[Tikkijane]

This post was aimed at someone else and we have already talked our differences out.

 

[centrarchid]

We use to have an Australian shepherd but she actually started killing my chickens. That's when I have up and got rid of my flock the first time. Back then I had the property but my dog was everywhere and a total problem child. We now have other dogs that would cause problems if they had the chance but we keep them locked up tight. I would love to have a dog I could keep with my flock at night. My biggest question is how are these dogs trained by your everyday Joe blow kinda person? We have 4 kids and a very hectic schedule. I spent most of my time being the only one caring for our flock which as of right now having them in a coop is becoming to much for one person. It would be easier if I wasn't nursing a baby but I can't have him around the chicken dust and poop at this age so it can be difficult. On the flip side of this I'm not going to get rid of my flock because I have a baby. I love them to much and honestly they are my passion. So guess my questions are how can you train a dog to be around your chickens without eating them when you have a hectic lifestyle? Not being locked in a coop may not work but if I was going to try it and see how it works what's the safest way to do it? How can free ranging help our family? Does location matter? I'm curious because not many predators in my location. To many people with killer dogs in our neighborhood. Everyone own Adleast one bully breed to guard their property including us. I know if a racoon fell into our neigh or yard it would be ripped to shreds.. I can't see owls having a feast on an animal roosting in a covered outbuilding. It seems like my chihuahua would have been taken by now lol jk..

Dogs are lot of expense which includes time. Every last one of my good poultry guardians has killed chickens during the breaking in process. Every last dog. Once the dogs do settle in or grow up, depending on how you look at it, then they become very effective against a very broad range of predators. Even hawks are given a hard time although I do employ other measures against those as well. Owls are the only baddy dogs have a hard time with and then other measures can applied like protecting roost sites or forcing owls to work from ground where dog presence makes that very risky for a risk adverse predator.

 

[Tikkijane]

We use to have an Australian shepherd but she actually started killing my chickens. That's when I have up and got rid of my flock the first time. Back then I had the property but my dog was everywhere and a total problem child. We now have other dogs that would cause problems if they had the chance but we keep them locked up tight. I would love to have a dog I could keep with my flock at night. My biggest question is how are these dogs trained by your everyday Joe blow kinda person? We have 4 kids and a very hectic schedule. I spent most of my time being the only one caring for our flock which as of right now having them in a coop is becoming to much for one person. It would be easier if I wasn't nursing a baby but I can't have him around the chicken dust and poop at this age so it can be difficult. On the flip side of this I'm not going to get rid of my flock because I have a baby. I love them to much and honestly they are my passion. So guess my questions are how can you train a dog to be around your chickens without eating them when you have a hectic lifestyle? Not being locked in a coop may not work but if I was going to try it and see how it works what's the safest way to do it? How can free ranging help our family? Does location matter? I'm curious because not many predators in my location. To many people with killer dogs in our neighborhood. Everyone own Adleast one bully breed to guard their property including us. I know if a racoon fell into our neigh or yard it would be ripped to shreds.. I can't see owls having a feast on an animal roosting in a covered outbuilding. It seems like my chihuahua would have been taken by now lol jk..

I don't know how Aussies compare to border collies, but BCs are *wicked* smart. We have to lock the doors {deadbolt} all the time, because they know how to unlock and open doors. Even if we're outside with the dogs, the door is locked- they'll open the door for the chickens to go right in.

In their case, it was mostly just actually talking to them. {My one blew put both of her cruciate ligaments, and instead of doing surgery right away, the vet was like, "Why don't we try explaining to her she needs to stay immobile for three months, and see how it goes." We did, and avoided the $2,000 a knee - it was crazy.}

These dogs can open sliding doors, flush toilets when asked, etc. In turn, they've taught the JR how to do stuff, even though he's not quite as big {but thick and chunky -solid}. For them, it was consistent supervision when the young BC was a puppy. The JR just follows what the girls do.

To be fair, I will say that we homeschool, and when the oldest was trained, we had 4 kids at home and a backyard {a hundred years ago, lol}. The youngest BC is only almost 4, and all 4 kids were still homeschooled and home on the farm. Now we're down to 2 full-time kids at home.

The key, ime, is consistent supervision and reinforcement until you can trust them. The doxy literally snuck out and snapped one day. He had snapped at the littles, but when he snuck out and struck after several years, it was time to rehome.

I love all my animals, but the dogs in particular cannot kill the birds, have to get along with the others, and have to get along with the cats {and people, obviously.} But it was all of us with the consistent reinforcement. Even our cairn terrier leaves them alone when she's here. A good farm dog is worth its weight in gold.

 

[jenniferlamar70]

Dogs are lot of expense which includes time. Every last one of my good poultry guardians has killed chickens during the breaking in process. Every last dog. Once the dogs do settle in or grow up, depending on how you look at it, then they become very effective against a very broad range of predators. Even hawks are given a hard time although I do employ other measures against those as well. Owls are the only baddy dogs have a hard time with and then other measures can applied like protecting roost sites or forcing owls to work from ground where dog presence makes that very risky for a risk adverse predator.

Is there a way to break a dog who is already grown?

I don't know how Aussies compare to border collies, but BCs are *wicked* smart. We have to lock the doors {deadbolt} all the time, because they know how to unlock and open doors. Even if we're outside with the dogs, the door is locked- they'll open the door for the chickens to go right in.

In their case, it was mostly just actually talking to them. {My one blew put both of her cruciate ligaments, and instead of doing surgery right away, the vet was like, "Why don't we try explaining to her she needs to stay immobile for three months, and see how it goes." We did, and avoided the $2,000 a knee - it was crazy.}

These dogs can open sliding doors, flush toilets when asked, etc. In turn, they've taught the JR how to do stuff, even though he's not quite as big {but thick and chunky -solid}. For them, it was consistent supervision when the young BC was a puppy. The JR just follows what the girls do.

To be fair, I will say that we homeschool, and when the oldest was trained, we had 4 kids at home and a backyard {a hundred years ago, lol}. The youngest BC is only almost 4, and all 4 kids were still homeschooled and home on the farm. Now we're down to 2 full-time kids at home.

The key, ime, is consistent supervision and reinforcement until you can trust them. The doxy literally snuck out and snapped one day. He had snapped at the littles, but when he snuck out and struck after several years, it was time to rehome.

I love all my animals, but the dogs in particular cannot kill the birds, have to get along with the others, and have to get along with the cats {and people, obviously.} But it was all of us with the consistent reinforcement. Even our cairn terrier leaves them alone when she's here. A good farm dog is worth its weight in gold.

Australian shepherds are also very smart. And when given a job they make incredible dogs. Probably the same as bc. Give them time and nothing to do and it's 10 times worse then your typical breed. I loved my aussie. I had her for 12 years until she passed of old age. She could have been trained but at the time I was very young and a single mother working full time. I just didn't have the time. Now we have a doberman pincher who is the smartest dog ever. Drives me crazy. She can escape anything. She got out of a steel dog crate!! She has separation anxiety. This is how we have lost all our screen doors, screen windows, carpet and carpet tack/bedroom door, all harnesses, collars chains and crates etc.. she can get out of anything and will demolish anything in her way until she finds us. :/ I am not amused lol.. really though i think if we had more time she could be trained. Once again this falls back on me again. My husband works long hours so really he is only home on the weekends. Ugh I like the dog idea but we have 4 and until they are completely trained we can't add more lol.

 

[Beekissed]

So guess my questions are

1. How can you train a dog to be around your chickens without eating them when you have a hectic lifestyle?

I've trained two pups to chickens so far and had older dogs acquired as adults that didn't seem to need training, though I doubt they had been around chickens....they were Labs and a Lab/Great Pyr mix. The pups were a Lab/BC mix~got him at 2 mo. and he is now going on 11 yrs old~ and my most recent trainee pup, an Anatolian/Maremma/Great Pyr mix dog~got him last year at 2 mo. and he's now 1 yr old...both are excellent chicken dogs.

In order to do that, you have to put them in that situation, so it's very difficult to train a dog on obedience if he's out in a kennel or pen all day, but I also don't recommend he be in the house all day. He needs to be trained where he works and lives, so if he's living with the chickens on free range, then train him there. If it helps to bring him in to the house for a visit with the family to teach him good social skills, then do that too. Just every day consistency with what you expect of him, follow through every time, give him time to get the concept and then repeat if necessary.

• I think if I had to list the most important component of training up a good farm/chicken dog it would be .....
• breed/temperament selection~don't make it hard on yourself by getting stubborn, over excited, jumpy, nervous or otherwise problem breeds/dogs. Surprisingly enough, many people have good success with bird dogs and herding dogs and even a combination of the two. Both are intelligent and eager to please types of dogs and that goes a long way towards success. Terriers, sight hounds, etc. seem to be a little tougher to train, from all accounts. Choose a medium level energy dog...not the pup jumping up on your legs and demanding your attention in such a cute way, nor the one ignoring you completely, nor the overly playful one, but the one that is calmly waiting to see what you want.
• Don't treat him like another child or your baby or anything approaching humanizing him...he's going to do better and perform well for you if you treat him like a dog with a job to do, a good work partner, etc. and not so much as a baby. From the day he comes let him know what you expect...no jumping up, come when you call~immediately, reward calm behavior and discourage over excited behavior, no matter how cute it looks. Make him work for food and for praise and affection, it will mean more to him and it will also keep him working for that. He needs to respect you at all times, so you'll need to earn that respect by giving him consistent boundaries and limitations. Put him in situations and then let him know what you want him to do....he'll work his heart out for you. After that, training on chickens is easy.
• Exposure to the chickens from the first day he arrives, gauge his reaction and start training right then....don't wait and pen him next to them to "get him used to them". This leaves a pup unattended while he's acting all kinds of excited about the chickens on the other side of the fence and no one to correct him for it...then, by the time you get to work with him, he's done all the bad things for as much as he wanted and no one corrected him, then you come along and correct him for it and he's confused. That very first introduction means everything and can never be regained...any intense gaze and fixated body language towards the chickens, correct him. Any whining, lunging or barking or even moving in their direction should get a correction. He should get a correction when he's doing anything but ignoring them and maintaining a calm demeanor. When he's acting appropriately, reward that with a quick pet and a "good boy" in your sweet voice, but I wouldn't go overboard as that will get him all excited again. Then leave him out there and go in the house, watch from a distance and give a verbal correction if he moves towards or looks at the chickens for longer than a glance. He gets the message you are always watching, even went you aren't.

Every second you are with him is a training minute, just like with your kids. Notice what he's doing and let him know how you feel about it, good or bad. That way you aren't taking huge chunks of your day in "training sessions" when you are too busy to do so...just train him as you go along. If you want a good chicken dog he has to have some level of priority at the beginning of his training, then little bits here and there every day~morning feeding, evening chores~ until you can trust him. Just like anything else in one's life~watching TV, time on social media, etc. that's over and above regular family life, if you can fit that in you can fit in a little training of the pup. Get the kids involved and let them know what you are trying to do, let them help by all of them being consistent with the dog and on the same page.
Hope all of that helps! Having a dog on guard all day and night out there gives a wonderful peace of mind and my chickens enjoy the freedom and health of getting to range out on pasture, while the dogs get a job to do, which they love and they too get the freedom and health benefits of living outdoors on clean soil.

Not being locked in a coop may not work but if I was going to try it and see how it works what's the safest way to do it? Here's an article that can give you some tips: https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/bees-key-points-to-successful-and-safe-free-ranging

 

[jenniferlamar70]

Thank you so much!! This by far has been the most helpful to me. I'll sit down and read the article tonight after I put the kids down..

 

[centrarchid]

Is there a way to break a dog who is already grown?

Generally speaking, breaking older dogs of acting improperly around chickens is easier than with pups. It is very much faster. Even when older dog has a history of killing chickens it can be done. Coonhounds, dalmations, labs, and border collies are the ones I cut my teeth on without formal training myself. Breed can be important but individual differences can override. When I think older. I assume it is at least 2 years old. It is also assumed the dog is socialized to be around humans and sometimes even around other dogs. First objective is to get control over dog where it ceases to do something when you give command. Get to that point then we can address the particulars of how to proceed. Dogs differ as individuals in ways that are significant to what needs to be done with subsequent steps.

 

[jenniferlamar70]

Generally speaking, breaking older dogs of acting improperly around chickens is easier than with pups. It is very much faster. Even when older dog has a history of killing chickens it can be done. Coonhounds, dalmations, labs, and border collies are the ones I cut my teeth on without formal training myself. Breed can be important but individual differences can override. When I think older. I assume it is at least 2 years old. It is also assumed the dog is socialized to be around humans and sometimes even around other dogs. First objective is to get control over dog where it ceases to do something when you give command. Get to that point then we can address the particulars of how to proceed. Dogs differ as individuals in ways that are significant to what needs to be done with subsequent steps.

Sophie our doberman is the dog I would really like to train. She is a people pleaser and very treat oriented. I've taught her basics like sit, shake, stay is a tough one because she has so much energy. She is getting there. The gets along with other dogs and is a little over 2 now. She likes to chase cats but shows little interest in our chicks that we brood. That doesn't mean she wouldn't eat one though and I don't trust her. I'd like to someday though..

 

[centrarchid]

To get to the point of trust, you will need to get her relax around the birds even when she is not distracted by something else. Then you got get to be that way when she does not think you are watching. Finally she must do so when she thinks you are not present. Latter step I like to do at night with dog outside and birds are on roost very close to where she can get to. She needs to get used to the smells and occasional sounds made by chickens. Then you do the testing on your days off during the day where she is out without your immediate presence. She needs to push the rules a little so you can instruct her to do otherwise. Vocal commands should be all that is needed to stop her from doing bad. Suppressing of "chicken bowling" will be some yet again. My dogs I stimulate interest in other things. What I really like to do is get up and all excited when chickens give an alarm call. You look all around and move towards chickens but look around them, not at them. She will pick up on you not being interested in the chickens but the area around them when they give certain calls. In my setting we eventually come across a scent or sight we can chase which really helps later. Best teaching tools for me have been raccoons caught in a live trap down where chickens are. Chickens get riled but the raccoon is what dog can be riled at only. Later you dog is likely to go after raccoons without your intervention.

 

[jenniferlamar70]

To get to the point of trust, you will need to get her relax around the birds even when she is not distracted by something else. Then you got get to be that way when she does not think you are watching. Finally she must do so when she thinks you are not present. Latter step I like to do at night with dog outside and birds are on roost very close to where she can get to. She needs to get used to the smells and occasional sounds made by chickens. Then you do the testing on your days off during the day where she is out without your immediate presence. She needs to push the rules a little so you can instruct her to do otherwise. Vocal commands should be all that is needed to stop her from doing bad. Suppressing of "chicken bowling" will be some yet again. My dogs I stimulate interest in other things. What I really like to do is get up and all excited when chickens give an alarm call. You look all around and move towards chickens but look around them, not at them. She will pick up on you not being interested in the chickens but the area around them when they give certain calls. In my setting we eventually come across a scent or sight we can chase which really helps later. Best teaching tools for me have been raccoons caught in a live trap down where chickens are. Chickens get riled but the raccoon is what dog can be riled at only. Later you dog is likely to go after raccoons without your intervention.

Thanks so much!! I'm going to try all these suggestions. Very helpful.