Lack of Natural Selection

[Chullicken]

In defense of the NPIP testing for pullorum, in the 'good old days' it was an awful disease that has rightfully been tested for and pretty much eliminated.
Having a flock that isn't infected with either Marek's disease, or MG, or MS, or whatever, is wonderful, and with good luck and paranoid biosecurity it can be achieved.
Once infected, that's another story, and then you are trying to have a flock of 'normal' birds, and breeding away for 'clinically affected' individuals. It's that, or give up on chickens and do ducks. They are nice, by the way...
I want healthy birds who do what they are designed to do, who look like the breeds they represent, and never mind 'show quality' except if it means correct structure and production as meant.
My two forays into 'SQ' chicks did not work out; I'd rather have home bred birds, or hatchery birds instead.
Mary

I fully embrace this. Definitely issues of that severity should be utmost on one's mind for all the reasons you stated.

 

[aart]

Three generations later, and I have hybrids with a stable MG resistance throughout the flock.

Does this mean they still carry MG(have they been tested?) and just don't have symptoms?

 

[Amer]

I defend exhibition poultry.


You said "before exhibition poultry, things were better." But have you ever seen what it was like before exhibition poultry?
There were no hybrid crosses, Rhode Island Reds, Barred Plymouth Rocks, Buckeyes, meat birds, buff Orpingtons, speckled Sussex, no dual purpose birds whatsoever.
Without breeding with the Cochins, (in true form, before they became aesthetic instead of dual purpose by those breeders.)
Without breeding with the Cochins, and then bred toward a standard they made up, the birds would get no where. That is unfortunately what happened to the Orpington. William Cook had beautiful egg and meat making machines, running smoothly, giant, well kept together. He sold them, but he didn't tell Europe how he wanted them to look.
They bred them fluffier and eventually they lost their dual purpose abilities as they made the standard how they wanted to.
Luckily, the original Orpington made it to America, and so we made the standard to his birds, and bred for great meat and egg qualities, keeping his version of the Orpington alive.
Without a standard, everyone decides to go off on their own directions, forgetting what the bird is actually supposed to look like, and the breed that was first there eventually goes extinct.
And, speaking of the Cochins. Without breeder and show interest, none of the new breeds would have showed up.
As you can see, it takes a group of people with a unified goal to have a breed. It can't qualify as a breed without more than one person breeding it. And without exhibition poultry, backyard poultry and industry as it is today would not exist. You have a much greater selection, with better egg laying and meat abilities.
So those are linked. And always will be.

 

[boskelli1571]

I defend exhibition poultry.


You said "before exhibition poultry, things were better." But have you ever seen what it was like before exhibition poultry?
There were no hybrid crosses, Rhode Island Reds, Barred Plymouth Rocks, Buckeyes, meat birds, buff Orpingtons, speckled Sussex, no dual purpose birds whatsoever.
Without breeding with the Cochins, (in true form, before they became aesthetic instead of dual purpose by those breeders.)
Without breeding with the Cochins, and then bred toward a standard they made up, the birds would get no where. That is unfortunately what happened to the Orpington. William Cook had beautiful egg and meat making machines, running smoothly, giant, well kept together. He sold them, but he didn't tell Europe how he wanted them to look.
They bred them fluffier and eventually they lost their dual purpose abilities as they made the standard how they wanted to.
Luckily, the original Orpington made it to America, and so we made the standard to his birds, and bred for great meat and egg qualities, keeping his version of the Orpington alive.
Without a standard, everyone decides to go off on their own directions, forgetting what the bird is actually supposed to look like, and the breed that was first there eventually goes extinct.
And, speaking of the Cochins. Without breeder and show interest, none of the new breeds would have showed up.
As you can see, it takes a group of people with a unified goal to have a breed. It can't qualify as a breed without more than one person breeding it. And without exhibition poultry, backyard poultry and industry as it is today would not exist. You have a much greater selection, with better egg laying and meat abilities.
So those are linked. And always will be.

I agree up to a point, but when some exhibition birds become more about the 'eye candy' than the utility of the bird, something huge has been lost.
Improvement and conformity to a standard is a good thing but when the quality of eggs, meat etc. start to diminish, I would argue that progress has stopped and the breed is in danger of decline.

 

[Amer]

I agree up to a point, but when some exhibition birds become more about the 'eye candy' than the utility of the bird, something huge has been lost.
Improvement and conformity to a standard is a good thing but when the quality of eggs, meat etc. start to diminish, I would argue that progress has stopped and the breed is in danger of decline.

There are actually lots of breeds left with great qualities. Or at least that is how it is with Buckeyes. They are still bred today with the key idea being in the standard, but also breeding for eggs and meat, conveniently, the standard is conformed so that a bird with eggs and meat would have to be gained.
Aaron Baker processes all his culls. (He is going to try processing bantams this year.) American Orpingtons are fairly dual purpose as well. At least in comparison to scrawny hatchery Orpingtons and fluffy English ones. Unfortunately, not many people breed for eggs and meat in that breed. Cornish, as always, is good for meat.
Rocks are excellent producers.
Rhode Island Reds, New Hampshires.
Also, I cannot imagine a world without exhibition poultry. Without the interest of dedicated breeders, so many beautiful birds would disappear. If you've ever gone to a show and stared at the show quality large fowl on champion row, you'd really see what we'd all miss out on if it stopped happening.
And it's not 'somebody else's standard' trust me, nobody just went and wrote it. Breed clubs, supporters of beautiful poultry, came together on what they decided would be best for all of them, egg and meat producers, ornamentals... And it didn't just show up in the standard, they had to work for it, bringing birds to shows multiple times to qualify. It's not one person who wrote it, it's many, and if anyone thinks there is something wrong with it, ask them to change it, I challenge, for many people are on their side.