Lash Egg recovery-When can she be returned to the flock?

[gosneka]

How do I know when a chicken is healthy or recovered enough to re join the flock?

I have two chickens inside who have been recovering: one from an injury and the other lash egg.

The sick hen is almost 2 year old EE. The lash egg was found 12/31 and my daughter watched her lay it. Once the lash egg was identified we started treatment right away. The sick hen has been isolated from the rest of the flock and has had 4 IM tetracycline injections (every other day). She has not shown any other signs of illness or laid another lash egg but I know it’s hard to tell because they don’t always show it. Her appetite has increased but I have not noticed anything else. Her poop has gone through a range of colors but it looks “normal” now: ranging from brown to blackish and solid. It was white and runny when she first came in and one day it was yellow and runny and the next day it seemed pretty typical.

When can I work on reintroducing her to the flock?

And what is this about hens continuing to be a carrier of Salpingitis?

I know lash eggs are not always Salpingitis, but I have not been able to find any information about determining whether it is or not. (I have not been able to find a vet in my area who will work with birds at all.)

I did treat the flock orally because some of them ingested parts of the lash egg and I tried to disinfect the coop.

How do you all go about disinfecting your coops? I microbanned it after the first couple days of treatment and added fresh bedding on top, is that enough?

So the hen with the foot injury is an almost 2 year old Seabright. She was inside prior to discovering the lash egg. I think her foot is about healed. My concern has just been about the temperature difference between the inside of the house and outside right now, and I also don’t want to expose her to staph.

She has started sneezing and now I’m worried about her getting sick. She was the only one not treated so I put some antibiotics in her water a couple days ago.

Does sneezing usually mean a respiratory infection of some kind? I know chickens are susceptible. I’ve heard her sneeze outside occasionally but what had me worried was when she had a sneeze attack of sorts and started leaking some clear fluid from her nostrils. That was the day I started HER antibiotic treatment,

…BUT I’m starting to feel like I have no idea what I’m doing. This has all been trial and error, but I’m basically scared all my birds are going to die from staph so I would REALLY appreciate any insight from anyone who has any experience with lash egg.

I will post a photo of the lash egg in comments if anyone wants to see. I did use my bare hands but I had no idea what it was. I have long since cleaned up and I realize this is not something I should do in the future. Thank you so much!

 

[gosneka]

Speculative lash egg…

 

[coach723]

Lash eggs are caused by infection/inflammation of the oviduct, and generally called salpingitis. The actual bacterial involved can vary. It is notoriously difficult to treat successfully. If they are passing lash material or 'lash eggs' then it's generally considered to be salpingitis (and yes, that looks like lash material-and I've picked them out of nest boxes with my bare hands). It isn't contagious in the general way, though there is discussion that in some cases a rooster may be able to pass certain bacterias during mounting. Having said that, I've had more than a few cases of salpingitis, I've never felt that, or seen any evidence that any of my roosters had anything to do with it, it seems to be fairly random. Treatment with antibiotics may sometimes buy them some time. It has to be caught early and treated early to have much hope of success, and most of the time it's fairly advanced before you see evidence or become aware of it, they are really, really good at hiding their illness. I have always left them with the flock until they were too ill to remain there, then I euthanize. For treatment, without labwork to try to test for what antibiotic might be most effective, the usual recommendation is Baytril (enrofloxacin). I've treated some birds with that and they still ultimately succumbed. I've had some last up to 18 months from the time I was aware they were ill, many have passed much more quickly than that. They don't alway pass lash material, sometimes it just builds up inside their abdomens. If they eat lash material it's going through the digestive tract and does not have the same resultant effect. They don't get salpingitis from eating lash material, gross as that may seem. So if she's feeling better now, eating and drinking, behaving pretty normally, then I would start trying to reintegrate. Sometimes when they are sick or weak, it may not be obvious to us, but the other birds may recognize it, and they will sometimes attack the weak one. So that something to be aware of and watch for. If temperature is an issue then start putting her out for periods during the warmest part of the day, and slowly lengthen the time outside. I would start with her in a wire crate, so they can all see each other, but no one can hurt her. When everyone is calm with that then start letting her out with the others under supervision so you can intervene if necessary. Sometimes it goes very quickly, sometimes it takes longer, just depends on your particular flock and personalities.
Sneezing can be from dust from feed or environment, or could indicate a respiratory problem. I would keep an eye on that one, and see if it resolves or gets worse. I have a bird that sneezes and coughs every single time she eats or drinks. Been going on for a very long time and no other bird has ever gotten sick, so it's just something with that bird. But respiratory infections are not uncommon. Labs are the best way to know for sure, if that is something you suspect. If there is discharge from eyes, nares, beak, facial swelling, bubbles in the eye, those are further indication of respiratory infection. Staph is generally everywhere in the environment. I would not worry too much. Take normal precautions, wash hands, be generally sanitary, just like with anything else. If you are treating bumblefoot, wear nitrile gloves. I've necropsied quite a few birds with various infections including salpingitis, I just take common sense precautions. I've never gotten sick or any infection from them. Sorry this got so long, was trying to cover it as well as possible. Hope any of that is helpful.

 

[gosneka]

Lash eggs are caused by infection/inflammation of the oviduct, and generally called salpingitis. The actual bacterial involved can vary. It is notoriously difficult to treat successfully. If they are passing lash material or 'lash eggs' then it's generally considered to be salpingitis (and yes, that looks like lash material-and I've picked them out of nest boxes with my bare hands). It isn't contagious in the general way, though there is discussion that in some cases a rooster may be able to pass certain bacterias during mounting. Having said that, I've had more than a few cases of salpingitis, I've never felt that, or seen any evidence that any of my roosters had anything to do with it, it seems to be fairly random. Treatment with antibiotics may sometimes buy them some time. It has to be caught early and treated early to have much hope of success, and most of the time it's fairly advanced before you see evidence or become aware of it, they are really, really good at hiding their illness. I have always left them with the flock until they were too ill to remain there, then I euthanize. For treatment, without labwork to try to test for what antibiotic might be most effective, the usual recommendation is Baytril (enrofloxacin). I've treated some birds with that and they still ultimately succumbed. I've had some last up to 18 months from the time I was aware they were ill, many have passed much more quickly than that. They don't alway pass lash material, sometimes it just builds up inside their abdomens. If they eat lash material it's going through the digestive tract and does not have the same resultant effect. They don't get salpingitis from eating lash material, gross as that may seem. So if she's feeling better now, eating and drinking, behaving pretty normally, then I would start trying to reintegrate. Sometimes when they are sick or weak, it may not be obvious to us, but the other birds may recognize it, and they will sometimes attack the weak one. So that something to be aware of and watch for. If temperature is an issue then start putting her out for periods during the warmest part of the day, and slowly lengthen the time outside. I would start with her in a wire crate, so they can all see each other, but no one can hurt her. When everyone is calm with that then start letting her out with the others under supervision so you can intervene if necessary. Sometimes it goes very quickly, sometimes it takes longer, just depends on your particular flock and personalities.
Sneezing can be from dust from feed or environment, or could indicate a respiratory problem. I would keep an eye on that one, and see if it resolves or gets worse. I have a bird that sneezes and coughs every single time she eats or drinks. Been going on for a very long time and no other bird has ever gotten sick, so it's just something with that bird. But respiratory infections are not uncommon. Labs are the best way to know for sure, if that is something you suspect. If there is discharge from eyes, nares, beak, facial swelling, bubbles in the eye, those are further indication of respiratory infection. Staph is generally everywhere in the environment. I would not worry too much. Take normal precautions, wash hands, be generally sanitary, just like with anything else. If you are treating bumblefoot, wear nitrile gloves. I've necropsied quite a few birds with various infections including salpingitis, I just take common sense precautions. I've never gotten sick or any infection from them. Sorry this got so long, was trying to cover it as well as possible. Hope any of that is helpful.

Thank you so much for your thorough response. I very much appreciate it. So am I correct in understanding that the sick hen will basically never fully recover? I have read that they will most likely not lay anymore. Is it incurable?

I wonder if I should see if the vet will prescribe Baytril for her. She doesn’t really work on birds but I might be able to convince her since she sees my dogs and cat. She was closed New Year’s Eve so I started the only antibiotic I had access to after calling the animal hospitals.

I guess I did know that about staph existing in the environment, but the place I turned to for advice first (maybe a mistake) was the BYC and another FB groups and I was mostly advised to wash my hands, and warned of lash egg/salpingitis being very contagious and deadly; and the information I was finding online was conflicting. I really didn’t want to pass something like lash egg to the rest of the flock.

So another couple questions if you or anyone doesn’t mind: How long after antibiotic treatment before you can eat the eggs again?

The Seabright does not have bumblefoot. She just hurt her toe somehow and ripped out the whole nail and it was just really bloody and the other chickens have not been able to leave it alone.

But today brings a new question. Apparently the Seabright has been inside and warm enough and around enough light that she started producing eggs again. I was shocked to find an egg inside her chicken diaper this morning.

What does this mean for her being as it is the middle of winter right now and she has not been laying for a while? Is there any certain way I need to go about reintegrating her with this going on when it’s time?

 

[coach723]

So am I correct in understanding that the sick hen will basically never fully recover? I have read that they will most likely not lay anymore. Is it incurable?

I've never had a bird recover from it. Some people have said that they did recover after treatment. It seems most likely that recovery would be most possible if it were caught and treated very early. Often times they hide the symptoms so well that it's not known until it's pretty advanced. There is no reason not to try treating if that is what you want to do, it's always possible that she could be one of the lucky ones. My birds no longer laid once they became ill, that is generally the case.

So another couple questions if you or anyone doesn’t mind: How long after antibiotic treatment before you can eat the eggs again?

That depends on the antibiotic used, amount given, etc.
Most sources say for oxytetracycline it's 14 days withdrawl for personal use and 8 weeks withdrawl if you sell eggs. If you treat a bird with Baytril, some sources say you can never eat the eggs again (it's not approved for chickens) others take a less drastic stance and just withdrawl for a longer period of time. If you see a vet that prescribes it for you (some will still prescribe it for a bird that is a pet) then I would discuss that with them and see what their recommendation is. Some medications have few or no studies on egg residues.
I will put some links at the bottom on withdrawl times and information.

For the bird with the injured toe that has started laying again, usually resuming laying is a good sign that her body is feeling well enough to resume that task. I would reintegrate the same way as any other bird, her laying or not won't affect that. If she's in a crate she will just lay in the crate. If she's able to get to the nest boxes she will start going back in there. Sometimes reintegration goes very quick and easy, just a matter of supervising for a while to make sure all is well. It just depends on the birds, and how long they have been apart. If a bird needs to be separated but is not so ill that they need to be in the house, then keeping them in a crate in the run can make reintegration faster and easier as they've all still been seeing each other all the time. Sometimes you can't do that, the bird needs more monitoring or needs to be in a warmer place.

https://bitchinchickens.com/2020/03/05/whats-up-with-egg-withdrawal-periods/

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02652039409374265

http://www.farad.org/publications/digests/122015EggResidue.pdf