Lavender Ameraucana Breeders .... UNITE

[Roxannemc]

OH also been meaning to ask maybe has been asked back farther here ..Do Lav Ams tend to be smaller than other colors Ams?
My girls are small about the size I'd say of a silky roo but not as puffy.They are 2 years old or more.The LAM roo sort of small but not as small as the girls.but rest of my flock are ORPs and BRAHMAS which are pretty large birds.

 

[DrFarmersDrWife]

How old are they? I'm going to preface this with reminding everyone that I am a novice, so any of my comments should be taken with a lot more than a grain of salt, maybe a tablespoon of sale. I would love for the experts to take my critique and show me where I am right and where I am wrong. All of us novices learn that way.

I love the feather quality, which I think is really hard to get. Personally, I would sacrifice a lot for no fretting. I wouldn't fault them on their beards. They look as if they don't have quite enough body--I would like to see a rounder, fuller sweep along the under body. They don't seem to have the sweeping curves I like to see, but maybe they are just young. Are they narrow across the hip? Although most people are looking at the breed as strickly an egg layer, they are a dual purpose breed and I think we need to breed for meat-bird qualities as well. Overall, I like the birds but as I said before, I'm pretty new at this.

They are just short of 7 months old, hatched at the end of March 2014. So definitely on the young side. The roo is crowing and I hope for eggs in the next few weeks, probably months.

I have always thought the other colors of Ameraucanas were considered dual purpose as well. Which is one of the reasons I ventured in to the breed, however it seems that several Lav lines have bantam in their background so I am assuming that a lot are not up to meat-bird sizes, or won't be depending on where the SOP goes. Last time I was on here, I think the SOP was still being decided. Has it been published/finalized?

I think the female is so petite that resulting chicks may be smaller too, but I have some nice blacks I can breed back to if I need to worry on size.

The beards seem to be less fluffy as the feathers there are kind of kinky, which is how the head and neck feathers grew in originally and have since straightened and opened up more. So the beard may get more full with age. The other colors I have are all about the same size, and same in feather development (esp roos) but their beards are very full. (maybe time will tell)


Will the curves come with more weight then? And can you show me some pics of what you mean? Since these are just now getting to adult stages, this is the VERY first I time I have started to judge quality, etc ever! I'm so new, that I am clueless.

I'm not planning to cull either of these lavs, but I'm going to need to cull the majority of the black roos (5) and probably my blues (3 roos) since I didn't get any blue hens. I plan to focus on the lavs for my future breeding. So I am going to have an empty breeding pen for a while (no blues).

Any suggestions on what to focus on in my Black roo which I will breed back to?

Thanks!!!!

 

[Roxannemc]

Well got my answer from DrFarmer..bantams in background..thanks!Always wondered.

 

[DrFarmersDrWife]

Well got my answer from DrFarmer..bantams in background..thanks!Always wondered.

I don't think that bantams are in every line... so you might check to see which line you have.

 

[jajeanpierre]

They do get a lot bigger as they get older. My oldest Lavender cock is pretty good size. The younger ones not so much. That is one reason we breed back to black is to improve type. I don't have any other color ams so I can't compare size really. I have never heard of anyone raising them as a dual purpose breed. I have much bigger birds for that..... they have never struck me as a meat bird..... neither do leghorns. I am sure people eat them. i heard they taste like game meat not chicken.

Per American Poultry Association's AMERICAN STANDARD OF PERFECTION under the paragraph Economic Qualities:

"A general purpose fowl for the production of meat and eggs, the latter having the distinctive blue shell coloration." Araucanas are also considered a dual purpose breed in the SOP.

So, yes, breeding for meat production is breeding to the standard.

Leghorns, on the other hand, are bred for egg production. Per APA's SOP under Leghorn's Economic Quality paragraph:

"Especially noted for their production of eggs." There is no reference to meat production.

 

[jajeanpierre]

They are just short of 7 months old, hatched at the end of March 2014. So definitely on the young side. The roo is crowing and I hope for eggs in the next few weeks, probably months.

I have always thought the other colors of Ameraucanas were considered dual purpose as well. Which is one of the reasons I ventured in to the breed, however it seems that several Lav lines have bantam in their background so I am assuming that a lot are not up to meat-bird sizes, or won't be depending on where the SOP goes. Last time I was on here, I think the SOP was still being decided. Has it been published/finalized?

I think the female is so petite that resulting chicks may be smaller too, but I have some nice blacks I can breed back to if I need to worry on size.

The beards seem to be less fluffy as the feathers there are kind of kinky, which is how the head and neck feathers grew in originally and have since straightened and opened up more. So the beard may get more full with age. The other colors I have are all about the same size, and same in feather development (esp roos) but their beards are very full. (maybe time will tell)


Will the curves come with more weight then? And can you show me some pics of what you mean? Since these are just now getting to adult stages, this is the VERY first I time I have started to judge quality, etc ever! I'm so new, that I am clueless.

I'm not planning to cull either of these lavs, but I'm going to need to cull the majority of the black roos (5) and probably my blues (3 roos) since I didn't get any blue hens. I plan to focus on the lavs for my future breeding. So I am going to have an empty breeding pen for a while (no blues).

Any suggestions on what to focus on in my Black roo which I will breed back to?

Thanks!!!!

Yes, they need more weight. If you look at them, particularly the cockerel, you see he is a triangular shape. A more rectangular shape is better for a meat bird. It's a maturity thing, too, since I think they all start pretty triangular shaped. You need width all the way back through the hips. You look at them from the top. Part of the curves is the shape of the bird under the feathers. If the bird is shallow and steep through the croup, the back will look flat with an abrupt tail. If the bird is deep, the croup will be flatter and there will be a sweep from the shoulders up through the tail. Feathering in the cushion has a lot ot do with this, too, but you want to have the right body shape, regardless of the optical illusion of the feathering. If they don't have a well developed keel, they will not have a nice round chest.

Do you have the APA's STANDARDS OF PERFECTION? Page 21 and 22 show this really well. It is a picture of basically a carcass superimposed onto the outline of a bird. You can see how the fault of the body affects the outline of the bird. Gail Damerow's STOREY'S GUIDE TO RAISING CHICKENS has good diagrams to evaluate meat birds.

Your birds look as though they have fantastic feather quality, something VERY hard to find in Lavenders. If I were breeding them (and I'm not although I have one and only one because I HATE the fretting of the feathers), the feather quality would be a huge plus for using the birds in a breeding program.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Maybe I haven't thought this out but I have 2 pure lav Ameraucana hens mated with the AM roo always had lav chicks with tufts..but later let them all free range with other breeds and One of my Younger girls from one of these hens looks just like the 2 pure hens. This younger girl lays green eggs though so is mixed with another breed.
So how did that happen If lav only come out of lavs?
Although her Dad MIGHT be a black orp with BBS background not sure as they all were free ranging but he was the dominate roo.possibly she became Lavender from him?
I did get a roo later Who is blue. Body lavender but hackles black Brown. And he's for sure part Orp has the orp comb.
I had a few chicks born with that lav girl that were for sure EEs but were lavender..this girl had the tufts etc others didn't so thought her maybe pure since i did have a Lav Am roo too.IDK.

Can you send pictures?

A lavender bred to a bird that is not lavender will not produce a lavender unless that (non lavender) bird carries the lavender gene. Lavender is a recessive gene--you need two of the genes for it to be expressed.

You said your two lavender hens produced 100% lavender chicks. What color was the father? Did he have lavender behind him?

I am having trouble understanding who was bred to whom and it seems you are not planning an Ameraucana breeding program, just letting birds of different breeds breed together in the yard. I'm not even sure you have lavenders since you mention you have a bird that is, "Body lavender but hackles black brown," which makes me think it is a blue not a lavender. The lavender gene dilutes the color evenly--you won't get the dark hackles on a lavender that you do with a blue. Your "lavender" with the dark hackles might be a blue with little or nor lacing.

 

[jerryse]

Maybe I haven't thought this out but I have 2 pure lav Ameraucana hens mated with the AM roo always had lav chicks with tufts..but later let them all free range with other breeds and One of my Younger girls from one of these hens looks just like the 2 pure hens. This younger girl lays green eggs though so is mixed with another breed.
So how did that happen If lav only come out of lavs?
Although her Dad MIGHT be a black orp with BBS background not sure as they all were free ranging but he was the dominate roo.possibly she became Lavender from him?
I did get a roo later Who is blue. Body lavender but hackles black Brown. And he's for sure part Orp has the orp comb.
I had a few chicks born with that lav girl that were for sure EEs but were lavender..this girl had the tufts etc others didn't so thought her maybe pure since i did have a Lav Am roo too.IDK.

It is not unusual to get greenish eggs from lavender breeding . This is due to what was used to bring in the lavender gene . It is a good sign that you were surprised . This is a testimonial for the breeders before you . Without their constant efforts to improve this would be more common . My first lavenders all laid green tint . Now green tint is more rare .

 

[jajeanpierre]

It is not unusual to get greenish eggs from lavender breeding . This is due to what was used to bring in the lavender gene . It is a good sign that you were surprised . This is a testimonial for the breeders before you . Without their constant efforts to improve this would be more common . My first lavenders all laid green tint . Now green tint is more rare .

My one Lavender's eggs do not have any green in them. They are very blue and quite large. She has been a very good layer.

 

[DMRippy]

They do get a lot bigger as they get older. My oldest Lavender cock is pretty good size. The younger ones not so much. That is one reason we breed back to black is to improve type. I don't have any other color ams so I can't compare size really. I have never heard of anyone raising them as a dual purpose breed. I have much bigger birds for that..... they have never struck me as a meat bird..... neither do leghorns. I am sure people eat them. i heard they taste like game meat not chicken.

Quote: I didn't mean they could not be used for meat birds. What I said was I didn't know anyone that raised them for meat birds. I wouldn't.... they are too small. My Marans, Orpingtons, wyandottes and bresse would be better choices for me for meat birds.

People eat leghorns even though they are not meat birds..... they taste like chicken