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X2 Redhen
X2 Redhen
Legal Issue Regarding A Bike Sale~~ Update ~ Resolved Thank You!
- Thread starter jbourget
- Start date
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X2 Redhen
Yup - x3
X2 Redhen
Yup - x3
- Thread starter
- #33
There is absolutley no way that is going to happen. He is comming up with his own numbers...saying he was told its worth 2,400$. i paid almost triple that........ i took a hit selling it for what i did to this guy. and no i didnt see the title, it was mailed to me and i was searching for it in stack of papers while he was waiting, seen it then opened it signed the lines as did he...and then he threw another paper at me to sign for his DMV registration or what not. I would settle for giving the money back and getting my bike back. but he is uncooperative and isnt bringing it back, AND i didnt say being OLD was a bad thing. he just has his days he is a friend of mine did not mean it in a harsh way.
yeah i get the whole do the right thing and refund him ect ect....then what? im broke without a dirt machine. its not like i knew that it wasnt a got dang 07 it was my first toy ive ever bought...thing was SPOTLESS and got taken advantage of my the #$%% who sold me it
yeah i get the whole do the right thing and refund him ect ect....then what? im broke without a dirt machine. its not like i knew that it wasnt a got dang 07 it was my first toy ive ever bought...thing was SPOTLESS and got taken advantage of my the #$%% who sold me it
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Even if this guy does take you to court? It'll probably be just small claims anyway given the amount of the original sale and alleged discrepancy amount. I don't know what your laws are in your state for small claims, but it's usually for $5k or under... For that, neither need a lawyer - you can represent yourselves, but he can file for court costs, legal costs, filing fees, processor fees, etc and that can still wrack up a pretty penny. Either way, both will need to dot their "i's" and cross their "t's" if they ever hope to win the case. This means DOCUMENT! DOCUMENT!! DOCUMENT!!!
If your ad claimed it was a 2007, he can use that against you. If you wrote anywhere in your e-mail correspondence that it was a 2007, it can be used against you.
If he's making threats against you or your property? File a police report and keep (at least copies of) the evidence! Threatening to take you to court doesn't count as a "threat"... But if there are any physical threats? Doesn't matter if it's via e-mail or voice mail or snail mail - KEEP IT and REPORT IT!
HOWEVER, since he signed the title/bill of sale and then took possession of the bike without looking at it closer? Well, that's to your benefit. If he paid you in cash? Well, again, that's to your benefit. If he paid you by check and you cashed it? Many banks will still give him up to two weeks to issue a "stop payment" on it even tho' it's already been cashed and that's to his benefit.
Keep everything that documents this issue for 1-10 years. You'll have to look up that information for yourself to discover how long you'll need to keep this info (for WA state, it looks to be 3 years: "An action for relief upon the ground of fraud, the cause of action in such case not to be deemed to have accrued until the discovery by the aggrieved party of the facts constituting the fraud")
Good luck.
If your ad claimed it was a 2007, he can use that against you. If you wrote anywhere in your e-mail correspondence that it was a 2007, it can be used against you.
If he's making threats against you or your property? File a police report and keep (at least copies of) the evidence! Threatening to take you to court doesn't count as a "threat"... But if there are any physical threats? Doesn't matter if it's via e-mail or voice mail or snail mail - KEEP IT and REPORT IT!
HOWEVER, since he signed the title/bill of sale and then took possession of the bike without looking at it closer? Well, that's to your benefit. If he paid you in cash? Well, again, that's to your benefit. If he paid you by check and you cashed it? Many banks will still give him up to two weeks to issue a "stop payment" on it even tho' it's already been cashed and that's to his benefit.
Keep everything that documents this issue for 1-10 years. You'll have to look up that information for yourself to discover how long you'll need to keep this info (for WA state, it looks to be 3 years: "An action for relief upon the ground of fraud, the cause of action in such case not to be deemed to have accrued until the discovery by the aggrieved party of the facts constituting the fraud")
Good luck.
- Oct 13, 2010
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Since you know so much about the condition of the bike, you should research the value of an 2004 model.
It is fraud when you listed it as a 2007.
You owe him money and should do the right thing and refund him the difference if he wants or take the bike back (less any damage he might have done to it) Your recourse is to try to go back against the person you bought it from, but it sounds like that is not going to happen easily. Your title should have said the year sold, so should your registration and insurance docs.
It is fraud when you listed it as a 2007.
You owe him money and should do the right thing and refund him the difference if he wants or take the bike back (less any damage he might have done to it) Your recourse is to try to go back against the person you bought it from, but it sounds like that is not going to happen easily. Your title should have said the year sold, so should your registration and insurance docs.
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OK, so it sounds as though it's all this guy's fault...? Please re-read what you've written - 'it (the title) was maiiled to me and i was searching for it in stack of papers while he waiting...he threw another paper at me to sign for his DMV registration...' Sorry, but you're the one selling the machine. You instigated the transaction, making you the one driving this sale. You're the one responsible for how it went down. Again, if you're in front of a judge and you give this as an excuse, I don't believe it's going to fly. Ethics aside (confession: agreeing with the other posters, but not what you asked about) - you're going to have a hard time making this argument, especially since the bike's date would have been on insurance docs, and I would imagine having insurance is mandatory - at least, it is where I live. Bottom line: I can just about guarantee no one will buy this as an excuse at all.
As for getting the bike back - he's uncooperative in not bringing it back? Your ad had him drive hours to where you were to take possession of a bike that's three years older than it was advertised. I get why he wouldn't want to come all the way back. He's not being uncooperative. He's being exactly how you would have been if you'd realized the bike was 3 years older than you thought it was when you bought it.
You got screwed when you bought the bike. I'm really sorry it happened. But if you get the concept of doing the right thing, but aren't going to do it because it means you're broke without a machine - it makes you no better than the "#$%%" (copied / pasted) who sold it to you. Don't mean to be harsh - it's just how I read your posts. And I don't believe that you would prevail in a legal action based on what you've presented. As far as I know, an 'All Sales Are Final' bill of sale does not trump fraud - whether it was intentional or not.
Food for thought - good luck -
OK, so it sounds as though it's all this guy's fault...? Please re-read what you've written - 'it (the title) was maiiled to me and i was searching for it in stack of papers while he waiting...he threw another paper at me to sign for his DMV registration...' Sorry, but you're the one selling the machine. You instigated the transaction, making you the one driving this sale. You're the one responsible for how it went down. Again, if you're in front of a judge and you give this as an excuse, I don't believe it's going to fly. Ethics aside (confession: agreeing with the other posters, but not what you asked about) - you're going to have a hard time making this argument, especially since the bike's date would have been on insurance docs, and I would imagine having insurance is mandatory - at least, it is where I live. Bottom line: I can just about guarantee no one will buy this as an excuse at all.
As for getting the bike back - he's uncooperative in not bringing it back? Your ad had him drive hours to where you were to take possession of a bike that's three years older than it was advertised. I get why he wouldn't want to come all the way back. He's not being uncooperative. He's being exactly how you would have been if you'd realized the bike was 3 years older than you thought it was when you bought it.
You got screwed when you bought the bike. I'm really sorry it happened. But if you get the concept of doing the right thing, but aren't going to do it because it means you're broke without a machine - it makes you no better than the "#$%%" (copied / pasted) who sold it to you. Don't mean to be harsh - it's just how I read your posts. And I don't believe that you would prevail in a legal action based on what you've presented. As far as I know, an 'All Sales Are Final' bill of sale does not trump fraud - whether it was intentional or not.
Food for thought - good luck -
If it were me, I'd tell him he either keeps the bike and no refund, or returns it and gets a full refund. I'd probably offer to meet him halfway to pick it up if he takes the refund route. However, I would NOT let him declare how much you are to refund him.
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- Apr 16, 2009
- 2,105
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I said this earlier, but not sure if you saw it. Research what the difference in value between a 2007 and a 2004 is and offer him that. That's fair to all and likely what number you would have sold it for had it been clear it was a 2004 up front. Then it's up to him to accept that or not. He doesn't get to make up a number for his refund amount and if he does take you to court you'll have your research showing values for 2007s and 2004s plus the letter where you apologize for the mistake and offered him the difference, showing you clearly tried to correct the matter. If he chooses to turn down a reasonable refund offer and take you to court instead, that will be a point in your favor, because you tried to remedy the situation and he wouldn't cooperate. A bunch of us here can help you word a note/letter to him reiterating that it was an honest mistake on your part, but that you do want to make it right.....that way you never admit anything except it was a mistake.
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