lethargic chick with enlarged crop(?)

[imaduck]

i have a 10 week old speckled sussex who is very lethargic and doesn't have much of an appetite... at the base of her neck, she has a large, soft bump... it's not hot to the touch and doesn't seem to be tender, but it's not normal. she's not been herself for a couple of days, and when i looked at her, she just didn't look to be the right shape. when i looked her all over tonight is when i felt this bump. i assume it's her crop, but when the girls have just eaten, that's more to the side of their neck and harder. this is right in the middle at the base of her neck and it's... squishy... does anyone have any ideas?

 

[moosey109]

Could she be dehydrated? I feel like I often have problems with that and if they are not feeling well that can happen. I actually had to get an IV for one of my chickens today who is sick. They told me Pedialite (sp?) ( the drink for little kids when they get sick) is good for chickens because it gives them a ton of electrolytes so maybe force her to drink some. Though you gotta be careful squirting it down their throat because if you get it in the wrong hole in their throat you can drown them.

 

[kathyinmo]

I copied this from an old post, from MissPrissy's advise to someone. I hope it can help you.......

Sounds like a sour and impacted crop.

I would suggest moving her to a dark place with limited bedding so she can't eat any straw or hay, etc.

For the next 12 hours only give her water with raw apple cifer vinegar added and massage the crop periodically to see if you can get things moving. When massaging do not push the crop upwards. You don't want this yuck coming back up in her beak. She could asperate and it be fatal. (The apple cider vinegar will inhibity yeast and fungus and other bad bacteria from growing in the crop and causing the sour smell.

After 12 hours of the water and vinegar if she is still sour smelling you can give a tiny bit 1/4 tsp if mylanta for her acid ingestion that results from the sour crop. It should help alleviate some of her issues. Don't get carried away. This is a one time doseage.

After you make note of what is happening to the crop (it should be trying to empty) give her pieces of bread soaked with olive oil over the next 24 hours and make sure she has plenty of fresh water available. No other foods, no treats, no laying pellets or other chicken feed. Only oil soaked bread. Continue with a very gentle massage to the crop.

Hopefully you will start see some serious poops and the crop considerably more empty.

At this point you should be able to start her up again with cooked rice, a bit of plain yogurt even a little scrambled egg. The next day move to some her feed soaked in water. Soft foods easily digested to give her crop time to shrink and get back to normal.

Keep her warm, in a dim place during this time. She should be quiet and resting.

You must note that a sour/impacted crop can be fatal. Some hens need surgery to correct it. Your hen may be too far gone for the suggested therapy to work.
While yogurt is very good probiotics for chicken when they have a sour crop it isn't good for them right off in the beginning of treatment.

The crop is sour because things stuck in there have begun to ferment and there is unhealthy bacteria, fungus and yeast growing in the materials stuck in there.

The ACV inhibits the growth and begin to kill off the bacteria/virus/yeasts etc. If you don't think she is drink at all use a syringe and give her liquids.

Then by giving the oil soaked bread you are creating a very slippery slope for things to start sliding down and on its way to be eliminated by the body.

Only after you have emptied the crop should begin offering the other foods. Other wise you can exacerbate the issues.

If you have read Speckledhen's thread on Velvet her hen died in her arms before she could intervene.

I use 1 tbsp organic raw unfiltered ACV with the mother to 1 quart of water for illness treatments. For crop issues I would strengthen the dose and give the initial supplement by syringe by beak - 1/4 teaspoon of organic raw unfiltered ACV with the mother for the properties of killing off the bacteria/yeast/fungus.

 

[threehorses]

If she ate, and because of the heat, drank a bit then that could cause it to feel mushy.

Take up their food last thing at night. In the morning, before giving them new food (bright and early please) check her crop again. If it's still quite mushy and full, it's not emptying. Then you would treat it for a slow crop or possible impaction. Though usually impaction retains most of the contents and would be more full.

If it's still the same contents, you might have to flush it out.

I also have to concur with the organic (only organic please) ACV because of the good bacteria, the way it cleans sludge from the digestive tract, and the way it tweaks the pH so that it's better for good bacteria, bad for bad bacteria and yeast/fungi (which are often a problem causing or resulting from static crop). I also agree on the plain yogurt. Alternately you could use acidophilis capsules (which are sometimes easier than yogurt because the little amount of powder is easily mixed with egg yolk and hidden, or another tiny treat they'll eat quickly. Or you can buy a prepared live bacteria probiotic such as my favorite, Probios dispersible powder from the feed store or TSC. (The small $8 bottle lasts a good while if kept in the fridge.)

Also please at this moment only give her easily dissolved foods. My rule of thumb is that if you put them in a glass of water and come back 10 minutes later, you'll find them in a little dissolved mound at the bottom of the glass. Not whole. That way if her crop isn't moving stuff through, at least nutrients will still trickle through and keep her alive.

Do the morning check thing, please, and let us know how she does.

Also, please let us kow if she has grit, eats anything other than grower crumbles, if she free ranges, etc. Thank you!

 

[imaduck]

thank you so much for the information. i took her to the vet this morning (a very nice lady who happens to be the only avian vet in town), so we will see what comes of that. she was the same this morning as last night. it has been hot, but the last few days, it's only been about 70 degrees. she has seemed a little misshapen a couple days ago, but she was acting fine, very eager to see what treats i brought out, happy to be out of the coop exploring the yard... so i didn't think too much about it, just thought that's who she was, what she looked like, had a big meal, something. it wasn't until last night when she was so lethargic that i really examined her and compared her to all my other chicks.

i give them grower crumbles, no grit, no scratch. they also get fruit and veggie scraps - strawberries, lettuce, cabbage, watermelon, blueberries, tomatoes, corn cobs to pick at... then they occasionally get plain (organic) yogurt and cooked oatmeal. they sometimes come out of the coop during the day and scratch around in the tall grass and garden, but not very often because our yard is not yet fenced (fencing should go up in the next couple weeks

).

i kept her in the house last night away from the rest of the flock. cleaned out the coop last night at 9:00pm just in case it was contagious... new bedding, wiped everything down...

how do you flush out a chicken's crop? i didn't notice a sour smell, perhaps that means we caught it early? just want her to be okay...

 

[threehorses]

Ahh ok ... well if she gets anything other than crumbles/pellets, they will need grit - granite grit so that it worms. Even though they get access to stuff in the yard, it's always best to provide this. This could be why her system is slow. They sell chick-grit in nice little bags that if your feedstore (or TSC) doesn't have them you can easily buy online without terrible shipping. Your best bet is TSC though. Or clean "play sand" from the hardware store. Or parakeet grit, sifted to remove the oyster shell pieces. Offer a little at first so they don't load up on it and pack their crops. Offer a little daily until you can offer a bowl free-choice apart from their food.

Hopefully that'll allow the more solid foods to get ground up. Parrots don't need grit, but chickens certainly do.

The diet sounds great otherwise. So does their environment.

For her - of course - keep her on easily dissolved foods until you and your vet can figure this out.

I definitely would also recommend the organic ACV to help her system get back up to speed. And if your vet says anything about fungi/yeast, then please ask her to prescribe diflucan rather than nystatin as it doesn't require an empty crop for treatment (while nystatin does best on an empty crop).

It might help to write this stuff down before talking to the vet - that's what I do to remember the meds if you're not familiar with them.

OACV also helps with fungi ("yeast") issues which can cause slow crops.

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

To flush a crop is not hard to do this:


once again I will try and express the manner in which you do a flush

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO THE CHICKEN

(1) chickens do not throw up!!!
DO NOT PUT THE CHICKEN BEING FLUSHED UP SIDE DOWN???


(2) so it is you that have to keep them right side up and come up from below the crop and push, bringing the spoiled food etc out the chickens beak. tHIS IS DONE WITH YOUR PUSHING WITH YOUR HAND UP AGinst the chickens crop area.


(3) to flush you need
1 pt of warm water
1/2 cup of baking soda
now mix and fill a childs ear syringe
as the syringe has a tuve on it then enter the tube to the right side to the back of the throat
then put the soda water into the chicken by pressing on the ear syringe gently to expell all of the water into the chickens crop

(4) so when flushing the crop you only want to get the spoiled things out of the crop
to do this you have to have the chicken on a table looking at you
it is good if you can have some one hold the chicken for you

now with your one hand on the chicken take the other hand and come up hard pressed against the chickens crop asrea

forcing the spoil food out the beak of the chicken
you do this manually as the chicken can't do it

(5) as for leaving the baking soda in the sour crop that is important as it is what cures the sour crop
so hopefully some of the baking soda stayed in the crop

(6) you have to do the flushing three times in a row when doing the flush. this generally gets the bird started on being well

(7)as that is what gets the spoiled food out

(8)
important is the day of flushingg do not feed any thing but give ACV in water

(9) next day and for a week only feed the chicken 1 slice of bread with milk on it
twice a day
and have ACV in the water all the time

(10) when back on regular feed crumbles feed some wet mash probiotic
email me for the recipe this is very important for the birds gut flora reactivated

any other questions email me

 

[imaduck]

she is still at the vet, trying to get things moving again. the vet has been flushing her crop and feeding her regularly. her crop and the rest of her gi tract have just stalled... so hopefully things start moving. it's either neurological or something that for some reason stopped her crop action. hopefully it's the latter because if not, it's congenital and she won't get better... we should know by today because she's pretty weak and can't keep going like this... she was feeling better last night. the vet called at 8:00pm, and said she'd gotten an ear of corn from the grocery store next door for my poor little chick. she was devouring it. so at least she's got an appetite and we've done what we can. haven't heard anything yet today, but hopefully all that corn was able to move through.

i miss her...

 

[threehorses]

I hate to say it- but the ear of corn is the worst thing she can give the chick.

THere's no gizzard power to digest it. The bird needs easily digested and easily dissolved foods, even if given the feed via crop needle.

I hate to ask, but is she an avian vet?

Can you ask her if maybe she could try bird formula, or like Roudybush Acute Care? They're designed for birds who are sick and aren't digesting, have slow digestive tracts, etc. She's doing all she knows to do, but really the bird's system is saying that it can't handle solids and needs nutrition, and most especially more good bacteria? Has she fed any probiotics? Any digestive enzymes?

Poor baby. I'm so sorry you're missing her.

 

[imaduck]

the vet has been cleaning her crop and syringe feeding her baby bird formula since i took her in - also antibiotics, subQ fluids, and reglan. from the x-rays, the radiologist was concerned that it was neuromuscular in nature and that her gi tract was just not innervated enough, meaning she wouldn't get better. because my little chick (her name is Sarah Beth) continued to decline - more lethargic, seemed to have labored breathing, dragging her foot, not passing any fecal matter - i went to the clinic yesterday to see her and most likely euthanize her... but while the doctor was out of the room to get things set up to put her to sleep, she pooped (not much, but some) and started to perk up. so we gave her till the evening to see if she could turn it around. she was still well enough that the doctor flushed her crop again and gave her more baby bird food, saying she'd call in the morning. over night, she exploded with poop all over, big droppings, hard, compacted balls of stuff... and her crop had emptied of all the food the doctor had given her. so she's had watered down crumbles today, continued to have some droppings, still very lethargic, but brighter.

hopefully this all means she just got plugged up for some reason, which kept things from moving anywhere, and now it's passed... it was really hard to know what to do... i wanted to give her every chance, i just didn't want to wait too long and make her suffer... at the moment, though, it looks like she'll be able to come home saturday.